View Poll Results: Should people Open Carry, Conceal Carry, or no carry

Voters
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  • Open Carry

    10 27.78%
  • Conceal Carry

    18 50.00%
  • No Carry

    2 5.56%
  • Ban guns from private citizens

    2 5.56%
  • Rootabega

    4 11.11%
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Thread: Open carry vs Concealed Carry

  1. #81
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    Re: Open carry vs Concealed Carry

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    I'm fine with a federal carry license, if that's too much for people to handle I'd also be fine with states recognizing other state issued CCW permits under the 2A. Where it boils down with me is that states should retain all powers not delegated to the federal, federal needs to remand non-delegated powers back to the states in a reasonably timely manner, and BOR protections should not be within the purview of either the state or federal, though we could reasonably ask the limits of every right under necessary and proper. IOW, the only limits upon rights should be provable harm to the rights of others, owning and bearing a weapon for instance doesn't hurt anyone rather it's the illicit or negligent use of such that does, same with the bad side of the first amendment, curse words hurt no one, but fraud, perjury, slander, etc. is a different story.

    The best saying I've ever heard is "your rights end at the other person's nose".

    yep and I agree with that 100% in its essences.

    I typically just say your rights end when they infringe on mine which is basically the same thing.

    I just wish the system worked better and with more streamlines. Yes I dont went the fed to have to much control but the state shouldnt be able to make laws that drastically effect rights, freedom and liberty compared to other states.

    IMO the gun law is an example of that, marriage law is an example of that, bank laws, hell even something as obscure as drug and prostitution laws. Its not that Im in favor or against these laws its that I understand that allowing just a state to do them or not to do them undermines the whole system because of their impact to individual and group freedom at the same time. TO me those things are on a national importance level because as a country they are tied directly to our freedoms, rights, liberty, constitution/Bill of rights etc etc

    sometimes things take to long to bounce back and fourth or at the state level go to far.

    examples of what I mean

    Drivers license good everywhere in the nation and should be and overall controlled by fed. But one state might limit speed to 60 and another 75, another state might want you to have cars inspected and one not, im pretty ok with that.

    My CWP SHOULD be legal through out the nation, the fact that its not is BS to me. This should be controlled by the fed but if individual states wanna say it needs renewed every 10 years or 5 or 3 whatever or I might even say its ok if states dont allowed concealed or make you wait till your 21 but open should be legal everywhere
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  2. #82
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    Re: Open carry vs Concealed Carry

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
    "A well regulated militia?" I'm not sure I follow you. If you are implying that regulated means that the government reserved the right to restrict the 2nd through regulation, the rulings have said otherwise. Basically, the term means the government's obligation to train and discipline, nothing more.
    Wait, so, the 2nd Amendment relates to the training of militia, not common citizens? I'm not following you.
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  3. #83
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    Re: Open carry vs Concealed Carry

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    Wait, so, the 2nd Amendment relates to the training of militia, not common citizens? I'm not following you.

    Check some founder quotes on the 2A and the meaning becomes obvious enough.


    The militia was considered a local organization, informally of all armed free men willing to participate. It was run at the state level. "Well-regulated" meant, in military terminology of the time, properly equipped and trained and organized and ready for battle... which would have been done at the state or local level.

    Some states still have militias seperate from the National Guard, which latter is a Federal institution. For the most part though, we've moved away from the concept of the citizen-militia, particularly the notion that all citizens are, potentially, part of the militia.

    Nonetheless the concept of every free person being armed and ready to resist crime, help restore order in the event of disaster, or otherwise act in the best interests of their community and/or state remains valid. Founder quotes on the 2A clearly show they intended private arms to be used for defense of self and property at need, as well as militia service.

    As for what arms the government can regulate, I stick with the "strict Constitutional scrutiny" standard.... those restrictions can be implemented that are absolutely necessary for the maintenance of society, provided they are narrowly construed and the least restrictive means possible to address the issue.

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  4. #84
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    Re: Open carry vs Concealed Carry

    Interesting. After reading all of this, I'm starting to think that if open carry is okay, what's so bad about allowing concealed carry as well? Haven't committed to the switch, however.
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  5. #85
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    Re: Open carry vs Concealed Carry

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    Interesting. After reading all of this, I'm starting to think that if open carry is okay, what's so bad about allowing concealed carry as well? Haven't committed to the switch, however.
    There are states that allow both open or concealed carry, with or without a permit.... and they're doing just fine, no "blood in the streets" or anything.

    Alaska and Vermont to name two... some western states also IIRC.

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  6. #86
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    Re: Open carry vs Concealed Carry

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    Wait, so, the 2nd Amendment relates to the training of militia, not common citizens? I'm not following you.
    Common citizens are considered to be the militia, though it has gotten convoluted over the history of this country. The militia as defined originally was to be seperate from the organized military, consisting of all able bodied males 18-45 years of age who could be "called to muster" in a time of national or local distress, these citizens were expected to either have arms in good working order(well regulated) or have the ability to obtain such. The well regulated militia was expected to train and drill upon call up or "be in regular working order".

    Things got convoluted as the Army National Guard, Coast Guard, United States Air Force Reserve, and other state militias were created due to the confusion of the actual term militia. The state militias do not drill as thouroughly as the regular military, and during a call up the citizen militia would be expected to drill to satisfaction. Due to the nature of state body drills they would qualify as an organized militia, and there are private militias within the U.S. but the simplest term is that all of us in the male 18-45 age who are able to serve form the general U.S. militia.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

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    Re: Open carry vs Concealed Carry

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Common citizens are considered to be the militia....
    not since 1792.

  8. #88
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    Re: Open carry vs Concealed Carry

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    Interesting. After reading all of this, I'm starting to think that if open carry is okay, what's so bad about allowing concealed carry as well? Haven't committed to the switch, however.
    People against unlicensed concealed carry have two good points: 1) Criminals prefer to carry concealed and to add to that an officer who catches one doing so has a legal tool to get them off the streets before they can commit a crime, or commit further crimes. and 2) Irresponsible conceal carry endangers innocents and the bearer, this is true so I have no problem with having a class requirement in the specific area of concealment.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  9. #89
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    Re: Open carry vs Concealed Carry

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    not since 1792.
    Incorrect.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  10. #90
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    Re: Open carry vs Concealed Carry

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Common citizens are considered to be the militia, though it has gotten convoluted over the history of this country. The militia as defined originally was to be seperate from the organized military, consisting of all able bodied males 18-45 years of age who could be "called to muster" in a time of national or local distress, these citizens were expected to either have arms in good working order(well regulated) or have the ability to obtain such. The well regulated militia was expected to train and drill upon call up or "be in regular working order".

    Things got convoluted as the Army National Guard, Coast Guard, United States Air Force Reserve, and other state militias were created due to the confusion of the actual term militia. The state militias do not drill as thouroughly as the regular military, and during a call up the citizen militia would be expected to drill to satisfaction. Due to the nature of state body drills they would qualify as an organized militia, and there are private militias within the U.S. but the simplest term is that all of us in the male 18-45 age who are able to serve form the general U.S. militia.
    That makes sense.

    Hell, I think the 2nd Amendment needs to be rewritten, with an emphasis on both clarity and defending the right of citizens to have guns.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    People against unlicensed concealed carry have two good points: 1) Criminals prefer to carry concealed and to add to that an officer who catches one doing so has a legal tool to get them off the streets before they can commit a crime, or commit further crimes. and 2) Irresponsible conceal carry endangers innocents and the bearer, this is true so I have no problem with having a class requirement in the specific area of concealment.
    #1 is a good point. #2, however, is just a matter of being smart and not leaving the firearm in a compromised position.
    "A man you can bait with a tweet is not a man we can trust with nuclear weapons." --Hillary Rodham Clinton
    "Innocent until proven guilty is for criminal convictions, not elections." --Mitt Romney

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