View Poll Results: Should people Open Carry, Conceal Carry, or no carry

Voters
36. You may not vote on this poll
  • Open Carry

    10 27.78%
  • Conceal Carry

    18 50.00%
  • No Carry

    2 5.56%
  • Ban guns from private citizens

    2 5.56%
  • Rootabega

    4 11.11%
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Thread: Open carry vs Concealed Carry

  1. #91
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    Re: Open carry vs Concealed Carry

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    People against unlicensed concealed carry have two good points: 1) Criminals prefer to carry concealed and to add to that an officer who catches one doing so has a legal tool to get them off the streets before they can commit a crime, or commit further crimes. and 2) Irresponsible conceal carry endangers innocents and the bearer, this is true so I have no problem with having a class requirement in the specific area of concealment.
    I agree IF we can do the same thing for voting rights, whatever the requirement is for CCW permits is also the requirement for voting. The reason I want to couple these constitutional "rights" is to prevent the majority from imposing a "sin tax" on a constitutional right currently exercised by a tiny minority. We have seen the taxation of alcohol and tobacco rise due to voting for them as "sin taxes", in Texas a CCW permit is now $240 thanks, in large part, to the NRA that gets $100 for a 10 hour CCW permit class (required to apply for the $140 CCW permit). I am sick of the objections to a $20 ID card for voting "rights" yet hearing that it is reasonable to require 12x that amount to KEEP your right to bear arms (handgun open carry is ILLEGAL in Texas). To turn a constitutional right into a CRIME, if you do not pay the appropriate state fee(s) in advance is, to quote Obama, UNPRECEDENTED.
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 07-26-12 at 05:40 PM.
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  2. #92
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    Re: Open carry vs Concealed Carry

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    I agree IF we can do the same thing for voting rights, whatever the requirement is for CCW permits is also the requirement for voting. The reason I want to couple these constitutional "rights" is to prevent the majority from imposing a "sin tax" on a constitutional right currently exercised by a tiny minority. We have seen the taxation of alcohol and tobacco rise due to voting for them as "sin taxes", in Texas a CCW permit is now $240 thanks, in large part, to the NRA that gets $100 for a 10 hour CCW permit class (required to apply for the $140 CCW permit). I am sick of the objections to a $20 ID card for voting "rights" yet hearing that it is reasonable to require 12x that amount to KEEP your right to bear arms (handgun open carry is ILLEGAL in Texas). To turn a constitutional right into a CRIME, if you do not pay the appropriate state fee(s) in advance is, to quote Obama, UNPRECEDENTED.
    Got to admit you have a point there. If we're required to have CCW to exercise 2A carry rights, then it ought to be free of charge since any fee to vote would raise a howl they'd hear on Jupiter... and they are both guaranteed Constitutional rights.
    Last edited by Goshin; 07-26-12 at 05:54 PM.

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  3. #93
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    Re: Open carry vs Concealed Carry

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    I agree IF we can do the same thing for voting rights, whatever the requirement is for CCW permits is also the requirement for voting. The reason I want to couple these constitutional "rights" is to prevent the majority from imposing a "sin tax" on a constitutional right currently exercised by a tiny minority. We have seen the taxation of alcohol and tobacco rise due to voting for them as "sin taxes", in Texas a CCW permit is now $240 thanks, in large part, to the NRA that gets $100 for a 10 hour CCW permit class (required to apply for the $140 CCW permit). I am sick of the objections to a $20 ID card for voting "rights" yet hearing that it is reasonable to require 12x that amount to KEEP your right to bear arms (handgun open carry is ILLEGAL in Texas). To turn a constitutional right into a CRIME, if you do not pay the appropriate state fee(s) in advance is, to quote Obama, UNPRECEDENTED.
    I think that there is no problem with requiring ID to vote or even to buy a gun from a licensed dealer. The CCW class isn't the problem, it's the certification process which keeps the market non competitive and favors the provider and should be streamlined, I think as well that CCW should be no more than 20$ and permanent but revokeable for misuse. That's the easiest fix IMO.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

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  4. #94
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    Re: Open carry vs Concealed Carry

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Got to admit you have a point there. If we're required to have CCW to exercise 2A carry rights, then it ought to be free of charge since any fee to vote would raise a howl they'd hear on Jupiter... and they are both guaranteed Constitutional rights.
    I'm willing to grant that a nominal charge for processing could be okay, but it should only apply to the processing of paperwork and not to exceed 20$.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  5. #95
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    Re: Open carry vs Concealed Carry

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    That makes sense.

    Hell, I think the 2nd Amendment needs to be rewritten, with an emphasis on both clarity and defending the right of citizens to have guns.



    #1 is a good point. #2, however, is just a matter of being smart and not leaving the firearm in a compromised position.
    I'm not a fan of rewriting the BOR to be honest, simply because I don't trust politicians to do so in a way that would only clarify the amendment, with the current batch we would end up with something much worse than arguments of the right's scope.

    To the second point, there are techniques to drawing from a concealed postition that are better than others, and the holster at times can make all the difference in the world. The second point against unlicensed concealment is weaker than the first admittedly.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  6. #96
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    Re: Open carry vs Concealed Carry

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    I'm willing to grant that a nominal charge for processing could be okay, but it should only apply to the processing of paperwork and not to exceed 20$.
    ...yup, and frankly some states are treating CCW as a "cash cow", using it to turn a profit to go into the general fund. That shouldn't be the case with a Constitutional right.

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  7. #97
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    Re: Open carry vs Concealed Carry

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    I agree IF we can do the same thing for voting rights, whatever the requirement is for CCW permits is also the requirement for voting. The reason I want to couple these constitutional "rights" is to prevent the majority from imposing a "sin tax" on a constitutional right currently exercised by a tiny minority. We have seen the taxation of alcohol and tobacco rise due to voting for them as "sin taxes", in Texas a CCW permit is now $240 thanks, in large part, to the NRA that gets $100 for a 10 hour CCW permit class (required to apply for the $140 CCW permit). I am sick of the objections to a $20 ID card for voting "rights" yet hearing that it is reasonable to require 12x that amount to KEEP your right to bear arms (handgun open carry is ILLEGAL in Texas). To turn a constitutional right into a CRIME, if you do not pay the appropriate state fee(s) in advance is, to quote Obama, UNPRECEDENTED.
    Unless I'm missing something, I think that the price of a CCW permit should only cover the cost of a background check. And heck, I'm willing to go even lower than that--yes, down to $0.

    But the right to keep and bear arms should in no way, shape or form be tied to the right to vote. They are two distinct yet important rights.
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  8. #98
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    Re: Open carry vs Concealed Carry

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    Unless I'm missing something, I think that the price of a CCW permit should only cover the cost of a background check. And heck, I'm willing to go even lower than that--yes, down to $0.

    But the right to keep and bear arms should in no way, shape or form be tied to the right to vote. They are two distinct yet important rights.
    The same principle applies though, rights are one of the few things that exist in life just because, and to limit one arbitrarily exposes the rest to that standard. I don't think anyone but anarchists would argue absolute rights, but they must have a high standard for limitation, for instance the right to conceal a weapon to permit actually does have a necessary and proper component in that it can lead to arresting a criminal prior to commission of a more serious crime, this isn't a limit on bearing the weapon but rather on a very specific use. Same with voting, we expect that everyone casts one vote properly in their district and the responsibility is to simply be honest, that we have fraud is reason enough to ask someone to prove in some way who they are. I'm even okay with someone doing a vote by sworn affadavit if they cannot produce an ID and then if they try to commit fraud the vote is not only thrown out but we've got the person on perjury AND voter fraud.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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