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Gun Control: Liberty for Security

In general, do you agee with the quote in the context of gun regulations/bans?


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When was the last mass shooting at a gun show? EVERY mass shooting you are talking about has happened in an area where weapons are restricted and/ or limited.
 
When was the last mass shooting at a gun show? EVERY mass shooting you are talking about has happened in an area where weapons are restricted and/ or limited.

So now we need a shooting at a gun show to questin anything? I'm not for any new laws, but I don't buy that.
 
When was the last mass shooting at a gun show? EVERY mass shooting you are talking about has happened in an area where weapons are restricted and/ or limited.

the garment soiling hysterics tell us it is the presence of availability of guns that increases gun deaths

Yet, having attended several GRAND AMERICAN trapshoots where there are over ten thousand guns for sale=most not under lock and key, with SIX THOUSAND PEOPLE walking around with 12g shotguns and almost always at least 100 rounds of ammunition NO ONE has ever been shot there-even though there are hundreds of thousands of dollars in prize money
 
tens of thousands of guns bought at gunshows have been used in crimes.

not really. gun shows tend to be a very low source of such guns. I can tell you why-its something that people who whine about gun shows never understand

GUN SHOWS CRAWL WITH COPS
from ATF guys trying to talk some dealer into selling a gun w/o paperwork by offering the dealer 200 dollars more for a gun to cops actually selling guns as dealers, the place is like an FOP bachelor party.

at the last gun show I went to, I spotted three DEA agents I know (buying guns for themselves-not on the clock) two retired FBI special agents who know have county LEO positions, 5 cincinnati PD retired cops, four Loveland Ohio Cops, one retired ATF resident agent (who now does background checks for the feds as well as serves as a range officer for one of the better gun clubs in the cincinnati area) etc.

now if you have a record and you were a mope in greater cincinnati, you run a rather large risk of some cop knowing your history
 
yes, really.

A federal study found that 10% of guns used in crime by juveniles were sold either at a gun show or a flea market, and in 1999, gun shows were associated with approximately 26,000 firearms used in crime

Gun Show Loophole Frequently Asked Questions - Coalition to Stop Gun Violence

a flea market-wtf does that mean

COALTION TO STOP GUN VIOLENCE

GEEZ I trust their inteprtations

NOT

10% OMG


less than two percent of inmates who had firearms prior to incarceration got them at gunshows or flea markets



http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/ascii/fuo.txt

from a leading expert on the issue

Should Gun Shows Be Outlawed?
 
yes, really.

A federal study found that 10% of guns used in crime by juveniles were sold either at a gun show or a flea market, and in 1999, gun shows were associated with approximately 26,000 firearms used in crime

Gun Show Loophole Frequently Asked Questions - Coalition to Stop Gun Violence


btw your source is a proven liar--there is no gun show loophole because the laws are the same at gunshows as they are at any other place in the relevant state

when the brady background law was passed, it was a change in the law. the change was only enacted to apply to FFL dealers-not private citizens. so there is NO LOOPHOLE

its a lie

its a fraud

its a claim dishonest organizations and the scum that lead them make
 
btw your source is a proven liar--there is no gun show loophole because the laws are the same at gunshows as they are at any other place in the relevant state

when the brady background law was passed, it was a change in the law. the change was only enacted to apply to FFL dealers-not private citizens. so there is NO LOOPHOLE

its a lie

its a fraud

its a claim dishonest organizations and the scum that lead them make

gunshows in many states allow people to buy rifles, shotguns, and handguns...without ANY background check.

this is a horrible loophole that MUST be closed.

NO ONE should be able to buy a firearm in this country without going through a comprehensive background check, which usually takes as long as 2 minutes.
 
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gunshows in many states allow people to buy rifles, shotguns, and handguns...without ANY background check.

this is a horrible loophole that MUST be closed.

NO ONE should be able to buy a firearm in this country without going through a comprehensive background check, which usually takes as long as 2 minutes.

would you stop the dishonesty? Private CITIZENS HAVE ALWAYS- OVER TWO HUNDRED YEARS BEEN ABLE TO SELL GUNS WITHOUT performing a background check

GUN DEALERS TOO UNTIL 1993 were able to sell guns without BACKGROUND CHECKS

the law was changed to cover ONLY LICENSED DEALERS

the LAW IS NO DIFFERENT AT A GUN SHOW than a swap meet at my gun club, or a bunch of my buddies hanging out at my archery range or at the K of C hall.

YOu can argue that every single sale should require a background check but that did not pass congress nor was it proposed and that would require complete gun registration which is not going to happen

and furthermore, the same people who sell billions of illegal drugs would have no problem supply billions in illegal guns


the only reason why FFL dealers can be effectively policed is that newly made guns are traceable to the maker and the maker has records of which dealer the gun went to

the guns my father left me or that I bought 20 years ago from dealers no longer in business or got from friends--no way
 
would you stop the dishonesty? Private CITIZENS HAVE ALWAYS- OVER TWO HUNDRED YEARS BEEN ABLE TO SELL GUNS WITHOUT performing a background check

GUN DEALERS TOO UNTIL 1993 were able to sell guns without BACKGROUND CHECKS...

and that, is disgusting.

no one in this country should be able to buy a gun without being checked to make sure they aren't a convicted felon, been institutionalized by the state, have a warrant for their arrest, or has been indicted for a violent crime.

I can't understand how anyone who values a civil society could argue otherwise.
 
and that, is disgusting.

no one in this country should be able to buy a gun without being checked to make sure they aren't a convicted felon, been institutionalized by the state, have a warrant for their arrest, or has been indicted for a violent crime.

I can't understand how anyone who values a civil society could argue otherwise.

people who understand the gun issue and gun crime argue otherwise

You can spew that nonsense till the cows come home but it is

1) unworkable

2) would require massive intrusions into our freedom to even have a chance of working

3) is contrary to 200+ years of law

4) and would be as big a failure as the war on drugs

reality bites the idiocy of pillow headed leftwing utopian psychobabble
 
TD- do you think Americans should be able to buy guns without passing a background check?

the correct question is do I believe that our freedoms should be abdicated to make such a thing possible and I say no

I also don't think

1) people who will melt down in the future should buy guns

2) stupid people who will make stupid choices be allowed to vote

3) people who will be irresponsible parents allowed to breed

4) people who will drive carelessly be allowed to drive

5) people with STDs allowed to have unprotected sex with unknowing partners


BUT the fascism and dictatorship required to make those things a reality are NOT WORTH the PRICE
 
the correct question is do I believe that our freedoms should be abdicated to make such a thing possible and I say no...

what essential freedoms does one give up, by going through a 2-minute background check in order to buy a gun?
 
Another straw man from the NRA fanboys.

No body wants you to give up you liberty. Own your guns. Just fill out some paper work when you buy them and when you sell them.
 
I don't think we should ban guns or anything, but calling it a liberty issue is quite a stretch IMO. The real, core, liberties are all about protecting the free flow and expression of ideas. Free speech is precisely that, but the right of association, due process, freedom of religion, equal protection, etc, are all there to enable the development, free exchange, and protection of ideas. The right to bear arms used to be about that too back in the day. It was a check on government. But today it has lost that element completely. Now it just seems to be about people think guys are cool... So, I don't think we should ban them or something, but I think it's pretty grandiose to still be canonizing the right to bear arms along with the more serious rights.
 
what essential freedoms does one give up, by going through a 2-minute background check in order to buy a gun?

uh you haven't read a thing i said

how are you going to enforce that when dealing with two private citizens
 
Another straw man from the NRA fanboys.

No body wants you to give up you liberty. Own your guns. Just fill out some paper work when you buy them and when you sell them.

For what purpose?
 
I don't think we should ban guns or anything, but calling it a liberty issue is quite a stretch IMO. The real, core, liberties are all about protecting the free flow and expression of ideas. Free speech is precisely that, but the right of association, due process, freedom of religion, equal protection, etc, are all there to enable the development, free exchange, and protection of ideas. The right to bear arms used to be about that too back in the day. It was a check on government. But today it has lost that element completely. Now it just seems to be about people think guys are cool... So, I don't think we should ban them or something, but I think it's pretty grandiose to still be canonizing the right to bear arms along with the more serious rights.

I am glad people who think like you are not the arbiters of what is an essential liberty

and one of the reasons why people should take the RKBA as an essential right because there are those who just want to write off rights they don't find important
 
Another straw man from the NRA fanboys.

No body wants you to give up you liberty. Own your guns. Just fill out some paper work when you buy them and when you sell them.


stop lying did you bother reading all the comments MSNBC was airing when it went nuts about the shooting? dozens of calls for gun bans.

Its easy to destroy your lie because if ONE person wants to ban or restrict our right to own a gun-any kind of gun that is legal now-you have been proven a liar
 
I am glad people who think like you are not the arbiters of what is an essential liberty

and one of the reasons why people should take the RKBA as an essential right because there are those who just want to write off rights they don't find important

Can you explain why it is an important right? I think the notion that it is a check on government is pretty obviously ridiculous... Self defense... I dunno. I guess... That doesn't seem to rise to the level of things like the freedom of expression or equal protection or whatnot to me. I'd put it more in the category of the third amendment. You can see why it was a big deal when they wrote it, but it seems kind of silly to give it a place in the bill of rights in retrospect.
 
Can you explain why it is an important right? I think the notion that it is a check on government is pretty obviously ridiculous... Self defense... I dunno. I guess... That doesn't seem to rise to the level of things like the freedom of expression or equal protection or whatnot to me. I'd put it more in the category of the third amendment. You can see why it was a big deal when they wrote it, but it seems kind of silly in retrospect IMO.

If you who claim to be a lawyer who has to have this explained to you I doubt I can help you. I think its important that politicians realize that if they really go way way too far, honest, law abiding citizens have the power to kill them or those who carry out illegal and fascist orders from such people

I like the idea that at the very back of some politician's mind is that fear.

as the old saying goes-when the people fear the government it is called a dictatorship

when the politicians fear the citizenry-its a constitutional republic
 
...I think its important that politicians realize that if they really go far, honest, law abiding citizens have the power to kill them or those who carry out illegal and fascist orders from such people...

oh TD, spare us the late-night comedy.

:lamo
 
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