View Poll Results: In general, do you agee with the quote in the context of gun regulations/bans?

Voters
28. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    23 82.14%
  • No

    4 14.29%
  • Other

    1 3.57%
Page 7 of 13 FirstFirst ... 56789 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 70 of 128

Thread: Gun Control: Liberty for Security

  1. #61
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    The greatest city on Earth
    Last Seen
    08-04-12 @ 04:27 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    31,089

    Re: Gun Control: Liberty for Security

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    that's because its not the law now

    DUH
    how are you going to enforce the law without registration?...
    by expecting patriotic Americans to follow the law.

  2. #62
    Sage
    teamosil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    San Francisco
    Last Seen
    05-22-14 @ 12:47 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    6,623

    Re: Gun Control: Liberty for Security

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarcogito View Post
    As our government inches closer and closer to being a corporatocracy in all but name only, I find I can't agree with that. I am becoming more and more convinced that we need to fight tooth and nail to hold on to this particular check on government.
    The notion of gun owners being some kind of a check on the government is silly. We spend more on our military than the rest of the world combined. A bunch of dudes with shotguns isn't even close to being a check on say, the Iraqi army from before the Iraq war, and we saw how well they did against the US military... If you really want gun owners to be a check on the US military, you should be fighting to cut military funding down to 5% of what it is first... As it stands, if there were a revolution (which would be pretty ridiculous in a democracy... what, you can't just wait a year or two for the next election?) what would decide it was which side the military was on, not some dudes with shotguns.

    Now, back in the founder's time, an armed populace really was a check on the government. Civilians had comparable arms to the military and greater numbers. Not so today, nor could it be without the country being torn apart by Timothy McVeighs equipped with stealth bombers.
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

  3. #63
    Sage
    teamosil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    San Francisco
    Last Seen
    05-22-14 @ 12:47 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    6,623

    Re: Gun Control: Liberty for Security

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    There does not need to be any ongoing rational defense of one's rights, including gun rights.
    Well that's a pretty lame stance... You're just giving up the field?
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

  4. #64
    Sage

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 04:21 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    8,180

    Re: Gun Control: Liberty for Security

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Well that's a pretty lame stance... You're just giving up the field?
    It makes it look like I'm giving up when you cut out the entirety of my post, except for one sentence. Maybe try responding to the whole thing?

  5. #65
    Sage
    teamosil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    San Francisco
    Last Seen
    05-22-14 @ 12:47 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    6,623

    Re: Gun Control: Liberty for Security

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    It makes it look like I'm giving up when you cut out the entirety of my post, except for one sentence. Maybe try responding to the whole thing?
    The rest of your post was just explanations for why you don't think you should bother defending your position, no?
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

  6. #66
    warrior of the wetlands
    TurtleDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Ohio
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 11:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    180,615

    Re: Gun Control: Liberty for Security

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    by expecting patriotic Americans to follow the law.
    I guess you just cannot figure it out

    people who cannot legally buy guns are not going to buy guns from someone who is going to do a background check

    I guess you cannot answer my question probably because you really have not thought about this issue and because you have admitted you really have no experience in buying guns or hang around people who buy sell and trade guns

    the only way to enforce your wet dream is to register every gun in america because if you don't there is no way to prove if a second hand or fourth hand gun that is more than a year or two old was bought from a private seller with a background check

    and given your wet dream is not going to stop, in any way, criminals from getting guns, it is not worth sacrificing the freedom of millions of americans just to make the handwringing WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING hysterics feel better

  7. #67
    warrior of the wetlands
    TurtleDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Ohio
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 11:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    180,615

    Re: Gun Control: Liberty for Security

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    The notion of gun owners being some kind of a check on the government is silly. We spend more on our military than the rest of the world combined. A bunch of dudes with shotguns isn't even close to being a check on say, the Iraqi army from before the Iraq war, and we saw how well they did against the US military... If you really want gun owners to be a check on the US military, you should be fighting to cut military funding down to 5% of what it is first... As it stands, if there were a revolution (which would be pretty ridiculous in a democracy... what, you can't just wait a year or two for the next election?) what would decide it was which side the military was on, not some dudes with shotguns.

    Now, back in the founder's time, an armed populace really was a check on the government. Civilians had comparable arms to the military and greater numbers. Not so today, nor could it be without the country being torn apart by Timothy McVeighs equipped with stealth bombers.

    you really are ignorant on the reality of armed resistance

    if some dictator takes over what is the proper response

    10 million citizens going toe to toe with the military (who most likely would side with them)

    or 10 million citizens making it their most important duty to shoot that dictator


    tell me-if you ended up in power and you know that if you say ban guns and order all gun owners jailed, that would mean 10 million guys like turtle-many of us who have years of experience in long range "target interdiction skills"-are going to do every thing we can to say put a 30-06 in the back of your dictatoring head, would you still engage in such nastiness

    I think not

  8. #68
    Sage

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 04:21 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    8,180

    Re: Gun Control: Liberty for Security

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    The rest of your post was just explanations for why you don't think you should bother defending your position, no?
    My post is about rights being rights without each next generation having to defend them against those who seek to restrict them. The rest of my post posed a similar approach to your value on free speech. Do all people have a right to free speech? Even the ones who suck at producing a cogent defense of it? Yes.

    But hell, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe we do need to defend them every next generation, as throughout history there have always been folks like you trying to trample their way into other people's lives and business. In that case, here is the defense:

    Last edited by Neomalthusian; 07-24-12 at 12:41 AM.

  9. #69
    Sage
    teamosil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    San Francisco
    Last Seen
    05-22-14 @ 12:47 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    6,623

    Re: Gun Control: Liberty for Security

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you really are ignorant on the reality of armed resistance

    if some dictator takes over what is the proper response

    10 million citizens going toe to toe with the military (who most likely would side with them)

    or 10 million citizens making it their most important duty to shoot that dictator


    tell me-if you ended up in power and you know that if you say ban guns and order all gun owners jailed, that would mean 10 million guys like turtle-many of us who have years of experience in long range "target interdiction skills"-are going to do every thing we can to say put a 30-06 in the back of your dictatoring head, would you still engage in such nastiness

    I think not
    Well, we've seen how effective insurgency is in Iraq. It's been a headache for sure. But, then again, the insurgents there are 10 times better armed than the American people. They have all kinds of serious military hardware. And, they're 10 times more experienced than the American people. And still, just a headache for the US military really.
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

  10. #70
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    SE Asia
    Last Seen
    07-12-14 @ 10:52 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    2,333

    Re: Gun Control: Liberty for Security

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    The notion of gun owners being some kind of a check on the government is silly. We spend more on our military than the rest of the world combined. A bunch of dudes with shotguns isn't even close to being a check on say, the Iraqi army from before the Iraq war, and we saw how well they did against the US military... If you really want gun owners to be a check on the US military, you should be fighting to cut military funding down to 5% of what it is first... As it stands, if there were a revolution (which would be pretty ridiculous in a democracy... what, you can't just wait a year or two for the next election?) what would decide it was which side the military was on, not some dudes with shotguns.

    Now, back in the founder's time, an armed populace really was a check on the government. Civilians had comparable arms to the military and greater numbers. Not so today, nor could it be without the country being torn apart by Timothy McVeighs equipped with stealth bombers.
    As a career military officer I disagree with you. Could the populace go toe to toe with the military and come out victorious? No. But do you think for one second that is how it would happen? Did you pay attention to Vietnam, Iraq or Afganistan? Guerilla warfare is effective against a stronger force. It wouldn't even be necessary to defeat the military. One need only make it not worth their trouble. I believe an armed populace makes it less likely that the need for such a conflict would ever even happen.

    And no, I don't think such a thing is around the corner. But we don't know what the future has in store, even if it isn't in our lifetime.

Page 7 of 13 FirstFirst ... 56789 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •