View Poll Results: In general, do you agee with the quote in the context of gun regulations/bans?

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  • Yes

    23 82.14%
  • No

    4 14.29%
  • Other

    1 3.57%
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Thread: Gun Control: Liberty for Security

  1. #51
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    Re: Gun Control: Liberty for Security

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    they log on to a NICS website and do the background check.
    you keep ignoring what I write

    its easy to make a GUN DEALER who receives newly made guns in the course of his business comply

    how do you enforce this law among citizens

    one day my brother has a gun

    where did you get that gun asks Officer Thunder

    None of your damn business says my brother-Steve

    well did you go through a background check for that gun

    None of your damn business says Steve

    well I know that the gun was sold to your brother Mr T 17 years ago and last year we required that all citizens must perform background checks


    he sold it to me 14 years go, so get Lost

  2. #52
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    Re: Gun Control: Liberty for Security

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    such language is unneccessary TD, and doesn't help the discussion one bit.
    WTH do you think the purpose of the second amendment was

    too bad a bunch of Jews couldn't shoot Hitler, Himmler and a bunch of those other goose-stepping bastards

    Germany confiscated guns owned by Jews

  3. #53
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    Re: Gun Control: Liberty for Security

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Free speech is precisely that, but the right of association, due process, freedom of religion, equal protection, etc, are all there to enable the development, free exchange, and protection of ideas. The right to bear arms used to be about that too back in the day. It was a check on government. But today it has lost that element completely.
    As our government inches closer and closer to being a corporatocracy in all but name only, I find I can't agree with that. I am becoming more and more convinced that we need to fight tooth and nail to hold on to this particular check on government.

  4. #54
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    Re: Gun Control: Liberty for Security

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    If you who claim to be a lawyer who has to have this explained to you I doubt I can help you. I think its important that politicians realize that if they really go way way too far, honest, law abiding citizens have the power to kill them or those who carry out illegal and fascist orders from such people

    I like the idea that at the very back of some politician's mind is that fear.

    as the old saying goes-when the people fear the government it is called a dictatorship

    when the politicians fear the citizenry-its a constitutional republic
    So you're going for the check on the government angle like I said... That's pretty obviously dumb, so I remain unconvinced.

    I mean, it isn't that I want the government to take everybody's guns away or quarter troops in my house, but I don't want the government to take away all the couches or poop on my head either. But it's a constitution. You're just supposed to hit the high points. We can't list off every trivial thing in there.
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

  5. #55
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    Re: Gun Control: Liberty for Security

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Can you explain why it is an important right?
    There does not need to be any ongoing rational defense of one's rights, including gun rights. They are rights, so get the **** out of here with your grubby lust to restrict them. There is no onus of explanation as to why a right is worth remaining a right.

    I think the notion that it is a check on government is pretty obviously ridiculous... Self defense... I dunno. I guess... That doesn't seem to rise to the level of things like the freedom of expression or equal protection or whatnot to me.
    Rights don't need to be prioritized with the "lesser" ones being done away with. Just WTF are you trying to argue? Hey by the way, you seem to enjoy free speech... does that need to be defended? Should the guy with poor cognitive functioning or reasoning ability be required to argue for why his right to free speech is important, the way you request defenders of rights to firearms prove why that right is worthy of survival? Maybe stupid people who can't argue their way out of a paper bag don't deserve the right to speak or express themselves.

  6. #56
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    Re: Gun Control: Liberty for Security

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you keep ignoring what I write

    its easy to make a GUN DEALER who receives newly made guns in the course of his business comply

    how do you enforce this law among citizens

    one day my brother has a gun

    where did you get that gun asks Officer Thunder

    None of your damn business says my brother-Steve

    well did you go through a background check for that gun

    None of your damn business says Steve

    well I know that the gun was sold to your brother Mr T 17 years ago and last year we required that all citizens must perform background checks


    he sold it to me 14 years go, so get Lost
    strawman hypothetical, as LEOs never ask folks if they went through a background check to get a gun.

  7. #57
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    Re: Gun Control: Liberty for Security

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    WTH do you think the purpose of the second amendment was

    too bad a bunch of Jews couldn't shoot Hitler, Himmler and a bunch of those other goose-stepping bastards

    Germany confiscated guns owned by Jews
    Godwining the thread huh?

    for your information, most of the 600,000 German Jews didn't own guns, and only a few thousand were confiscated from them.

    meanwhile, more than 100,000 Aryans who were 1/2 or 1/4 Jewish COULD LEGALLY own firearms, and they still didn't try to kill Hitler.

    nevermind the fact that the Nazis loosened gun-regulations from where they were under the Weimar Republic.
    Last edited by Thunder; 07-24-12 at 12:27 AM.

  8. #58
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    Re: Gun Control: Liberty for Security

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    So you're going for the check on the government angle like I said... That's pretty obviously dumb, so I remain unconvinced.

    I mean, it isn't that I want the government to take everybody's guns away or quarter troops in my house, but I don't want the government to take away all the couches or poop on my head either. But it's a constitution. You're just supposed to hit the high points. We can't list off every trivial thing in there.
    when your rants start making sense, maybe some will take your posts on this seriously

    but your claim that some rights really don't matter any more is just plain idiotic

  9. #59
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    Re: Gun Control: Liberty for Security

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    Godwining the thread huh?
    using history to prove an obvious point


    we could have used Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot or the butcher in what was once known as Yugoslavia if you prefer

  10. #60
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    Re: Gun Control: Liberty for Security

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    strawman hypothetical, as LEOs never ask folks if they went through a background check to get a gun.
    that's because its not the law now

    DUH

    how are you going to enforce the law without registration? (guns that dealers buy new are traceable-guns I have and want to sell to friends are NOT)

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