View Poll Results: In general, do you agee with the quote in the context of gun regulations/bans?

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  • Yes

    23 82.14%
  • No

    4 14.29%
  • Other

    1 3.57%
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Thread: Gun Control: Liberty for Security

  1. #41
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    Re: Gun Control: Liberty for Security

    Another straw man from the NRA fanboys.

    No body wants you to give up you liberty. Own your guns. Just fill out some paper work when you buy them and when you sell them.

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    Re: Gun Control: Liberty for Security

    I don't think we should ban guns or anything, but calling it a liberty issue is quite a stretch IMO. The real, core, liberties are all about protecting the free flow and expression of ideas. Free speech is precisely that, but the right of association, due process, freedom of religion, equal protection, etc, are all there to enable the development, free exchange, and protection of ideas. The right to bear arms used to be about that too back in the day. It was a check on government. But today it has lost that element completely. Now it just seems to be about people think guys are cool... So, I don't think we should ban them or something, but I think it's pretty grandiose to still be canonizing the right to bear arms along with the more serious rights.
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

  3. #43
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    Re: Gun Control: Liberty for Security

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    what essential freedoms does one give up, by going through a 2-minute background check in order to buy a gun?
    uh you haven't read a thing i said

    how are you going to enforce that when dealing with two private citizens

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    Re: Gun Control: Liberty for Security

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    Another straw man from the NRA fanboys.

    No body wants you to give up you liberty. Own your guns. Just fill out some paper work when you buy them and when you sell them.
    For what purpose?

  5. #45
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    Re: Gun Control: Liberty for Security

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    I don't think we should ban guns or anything, but calling it a liberty issue is quite a stretch IMO. The real, core, liberties are all about protecting the free flow and expression of ideas. Free speech is precisely that, but the right of association, due process, freedom of religion, equal protection, etc, are all there to enable the development, free exchange, and protection of ideas. The right to bear arms used to be about that too back in the day. It was a check on government. But today it has lost that element completely. Now it just seems to be about people think guys are cool... So, I don't think we should ban them or something, but I think it's pretty grandiose to still be canonizing the right to bear arms along with the more serious rights.
    I am glad people who think like you are not the arbiters of what is an essential liberty

    and one of the reasons why people should take the RKBA as an essential right because there are those who just want to write off rights they don't find important

  6. #46
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    Re: Gun Control: Liberty for Security

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    Another straw man from the NRA fanboys.

    No body wants you to give up you liberty. Own your guns. Just fill out some paper work when you buy them and when you sell them.

    stop lying did you bother reading all the comments MSNBC was airing when it went nuts about the shooting? dozens of calls for gun bans.

    Its easy to destroy your lie because if ONE person wants to ban or restrict our right to own a gun-any kind of gun that is legal now-you have been proven a liar

  7. #47
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    Re: Gun Control: Liberty for Security

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I am glad people who think like you are not the arbiters of what is an essential liberty

    and one of the reasons why people should take the RKBA as an essential right because there are those who just want to write off rights they don't find important
    Can you explain why it is an important right? I think the notion that it is a check on government is pretty obviously ridiculous... Self defense... I dunno. I guess... That doesn't seem to rise to the level of things like the freedom of expression or equal protection or whatnot to me. I'd put it more in the category of the third amendment. You can see why it was a big deal when they wrote it, but it seems kind of silly to give it a place in the bill of rights in retrospect.
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

  8. #48
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    Re: Gun Control: Liberty for Security

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Can you explain why it is an important right? I think the notion that it is a check on government is pretty obviously ridiculous... Self defense... I dunno. I guess... That doesn't seem to rise to the level of things like the freedom of expression or equal protection or whatnot to me. I'd put it more in the category of the third amendment. You can see why it was a big deal when they wrote it, but it seems kind of silly in retrospect IMO.
    If you who claim to be a lawyer who has to have this explained to you I doubt I can help you. I think its important that politicians realize that if they really go way way too far, honest, law abiding citizens have the power to kill them or those who carry out illegal and fascist orders from such people

    I like the idea that at the very back of some politician's mind is that fear.

    as the old saying goes-when the people fear the government it is called a dictatorship

    when the politicians fear the citizenry-its a constitutional republic

  9. #49
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    Re: Gun Control: Liberty for Security

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    uh you haven't read a thing i said

    how are you going to enforce that when dealing with two private citizens
    they log on to a NICS website and do the background check.

  10. #50
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    Re: Gun Control: Liberty for Security

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    ...I think its important that politicians realize that if they really go far, honest, law abiding citizens have the power to kill them or those who carry out illegal and fascist orders from such people...
    oh TD, spare us the late-night comedy.

    Last edited by Thunder; 07-24-12 at 12:23 AM.

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