View Poll Results: Did you / Do you use that argument?

Voters
23. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    17 73.91%
  • No

    6 26.09%
Page 3 of 8 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 75

Thread: Patriot Act: Liberty for Security

  1. #21
    Sage
    Dittohead not!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    The Golden State
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:09 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    41,589

    Re: Patriot Act: Liberty for Security

    The Patriot Act allows government to listen in on private conversations without a warrant.

    The requirement for a warrant is in the Constitution for a reason. Ignore it, and you open the door for government abuse of power.

    Same for the power to lock people up without a trial. The right to a speedy trial is another safeguard to liberty, and so giving it up opens the door for more government abuse of power.

    Depriving a citizen of life, liberty or property without due process of law is another potential abuse of government power.

    Give the government enough power to abuse, and it is inevitable that it will be abused sooner or later to the detriment of liberty.

    The real question is whether or not we value liberty enough to fight for it.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

  2. #22
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    New England
    Last Seen
    05-01-14 @ 03:29 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    12,879

    Re: Patriot Act: Liberty for Security

    As a PROPONENT of the Patriot Act the phrase does not support my side of the discussion, so why would I use it?

  3. #23
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Last Seen
    09-18-12 @ 08:07 AM
    Lean
    Private
    Posts
    3,245

    Re: Patriot Act: Liberty for Security

    The problem I have with the wiretapping argument is telephone poles are a public utility. The same goes for the airwaves that cellphones operate through.

  4. #24
    Sage
    samsmart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    10,316
    Blog Entries
    37

    Re: Patriot Act: Liberty for Security

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    So, I remember it coming up often early on in the debate with the Patriot Act. I'd love to see people come down on whether or not they used this argument.

    Did you/do you use the argument/thought process against the provisions of the Patriot Act that, paraphrasing, "He who gives up Liberty in exchange for Security, deserves neither"?
    I did, but I'd rather have more liberty.

    It should be noted that the Patriot Act provisions have been used more for drug cases and other domestic crimes than for preventing terrorism.

    Patriot Act used for more than anti-terror / Justice report also reveals 50 secretly detained after 9/11 - SFGate

    Dan Carlin did a great podcast episode that talks about the expansion of the War on Drugs, and how the federal government uses financial incentives to get local police to pursue it, and how the government even profits from it.

    Dan Carlin - Common Sense Archive
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

  5. #25
    Sage
    lpast's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Fla
    Last Seen
    05-21-16 @ 10:12 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    13,565

    Re: Patriot Act: Liberty for Security

    If your not safe....your not free....everyone has to give up some form of freedom to be safe so we can be free....most people are clueless when it comes to the patriot act...they have no idea about it...they just jump one side or the other of partisan spectrum.
    I admittedly dont know enough about it....but I do fully understand there is no freedom without safety

  6. #26
    versus the world
    Surtr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    The greatest planet in the world.
    Last Seen
    06-10-14 @ 03:54 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    7,017

    Re: Patriot Act: Liberty for Security

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    So, I remember it coming up often early on in the debate with the Patriot Act. I'd love to see people come down on whether or not they used this argument.

    Did you/do you use the argument/thought process against the provisions of the Patriot Act that, paraphrasing, "He who gives up Liberty in exchange for Security, deserves neither"?
    I've stated something similar in the past. Demanding that we sacrifice our freedom for the appearance of safety is simply idiotic, and ultimately defeats its own purpose. Giving more power to departments like Homeland Security and the BATFE only empowers them, and they will do anything to stay on top, and in control.
    I love the NSA. It's like having a secret fan-base you will never see, but they're there, watching everything you write and it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that I may be some person's only form of unconstitutional entertainment one night.

  7. #27
    Sage
    Medusa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Turkey
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:30 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    38,088

    Re: Patriot Act: Liberty for Security

    liberty is everything .when you have this ,you can have everything too.
    "Sovereignty is not given, it is taken." ATATÜRK

  8. #28
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    New England
    Last Seen
    05-01-14 @ 03:29 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    12,879

    Re: Patriot Act: Liberty for Security

    Quote Originally Posted by Medusa View Post
    liberty is everything .when you have this ,you can have everything too.
    I disagree. I would be more likely to agree if I felt that there was even a shred of common decency, morality, OR values left in the American citizenry at this point in time. I don't believe there is any amount of even one of those three things left in this country's residents at this point in history; and unfortunately this weekend's news stories shows that quite well.

    Liberty is only truly useful when one can be trusted to do the Right Things with it.

  9. #29
    Sage
    RGacky3's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Last Seen
    08-25-15 @ 05:22 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Socialist
    Posts
    9,570

    Re: Patriot Act: Liberty for Security

    As a PROPONENT of the Patriot Act the phrase does not support my side of the discussion, so why would I use it?
    You shouldn't just pick and choose what supports your side, you should base your side on the facts, your side of the discussion should be contingent on reason and facts, not the otherway around.

    I disagree. I would be more likely to agree if I felt that there was even a shred of common decency, morality, OR values left in the American citizenry at this point in time. I don't believe there is any amount of even one of those three things left in this country's residents at this point in history; and unfortunately this weekend's news stories shows that quite well.

    Liberty is only truly useful when one can be trusted to do the Right Things with it.
    There NEVER WAS a golden age of common decency/morality or whatever.

  10. #30
    Sage
    Medusa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Turkey
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:30 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    38,088

    Re: Patriot Act: Liberty for Security

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    I disagree. I would be more likely to agree if I felt that there was even a shred of common decency, morality, OR values left in the American citizenry at this point in time. I don't believe there is any amount of even one of those three things left in this country's residents at this point in history; and unfortunately this weekend's news stories shows that quite well.

    Liberty is only truly useful when one can be trusted to do the Right Things with it.
    in fact sometimes i cant decide whether the liberty is more important or not ,because it may depend on some conditions.yes i care about liberty and consider it indisputable must .if somebody is trying to harm you ,you cant have freedom unless you get rid of that threat
    "Sovereignty is not given, it is taken." ATATÜRK

Page 3 of 8 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •