View Poll Results: Are savings from a tax law change "income the tax payer did not earn"?

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  • Yes, if the government takes less-it is unearned income for you

    0 0%
  • No-it was money you earned in the first place

    23 100.00%
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Thread: Are savings from a tax law change "income the tax payer did not earn">

  1. #81
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    Re: Are savings from a tax law change "income the tax payer did not earn">

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    on the contrary, the thing itself is distinct and unique. in my world, we also point out that words are important and definitions matter
    Words are important all right. Use the right words and you can convince grandma to give up her life savings for a chance to own a piece of the Brooklyn Bridge - or you can convince a room full of people to donate thousands to help fund cancer research. They're just tools but quite unlike a wrench or screwdriver words are as fluid as the speaker wants them to be - or rather, as he can convince his audience they are. Madison Ave makes billions a year playing with words and selling concepts. "It doesn't matter that product A has been around for a decade and is getting stale - we'll re-label it, re-package it, and we'll be able to sell it for another five years without changing the content." So much for words, definitions, and meanings. I've seen too many years of their use, misuse, and abuse to drink that Kool-Aide anymore.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 07-24-12 at 03:50 AM.
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  2. #82
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    Re: Are savings from a tax law change "income the tax payer did not earn">

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    That's you trying to impose your personal judgment on whether an agreement between two other parties satisfies your definition of fair.

    If you're not one of the parties involved in the business arrangement, your concept of what is deserved within that business arrangement is meaningless.
    That's how slavery and other illegal activities get started. "It's not your business!" LOL!
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  3. #83
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    Re: Are savings from a tax law change "income the tax payer did not earn">

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Words are important all right. Use the right words and you can convince grandma to give up her life savings for a chance to own a piece of the Brooklyn Bridge - or you can convince a room full of people to donate thousands to help fund cancer research. They're just tools but quite unlike a wrench or screwdriver words are as fluid as the speaker wants them to be - or rather, as he can convince his audience they are. Madison Ave makes billions a year playing with words and selling concepts. "It doesn't matter that product A has been around for a decade and is getting stale - we'll re-label it, re-package it, and we'll be able to sell it for another five years without changing the content." So much for words, definitions, and meanings. I've seen too many years of their use, misuse, and abuse to drink that Kool-Aide anymore.
    in your line of work apparently you are paid to twist words and meanings and so you have chosen to follow the money and deny meaning. my line of work is rather the opposite - if my meaning does not correspond exactly, accurately, and finely to the ground reality, then disaster can occur.

    the cynical always forget that theirs is simply a different form of naivete.

  4. #84
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    Re: Are savings from a tax law change "income the tax payer did not earn">

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    You said it yourself you "made money" but you didn't "earn" it. There is a big difference between investing money and earning money. One is that much like gambling, you are not guarenteed a return on your money from investing, whereas if you work hard at a job using your labor for someone you are almost guarenteed to get to paid because you earned it.

    Yeah I suppose if you are hateful of those who have more prosperity than you do you might feel that way. and many people work very hard investing money. But what I love is the underlying attitude that the government somehow deserves the money more than the person who made it in the first place

  5. #85
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    Re: Are savings from a tax law change "income the tax payer did not earn">

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    This isn't English class, son, it's politics.
    no - this is political philosophy. we aren't spinning narrative and counter narrative here in a partisan manner, but discussing and defining the nugget of the matter.

    Misleading names and swapping labels is common practice. Words mean what Madison Ave decides can be sold and spun. Obviously you're too young to understand this simple idea. Give it a couple more decades of watching the circus and maybe you'll figure it out. "The labels will be changed to protect the guilty" - standard protocol in all capital cities across the country and especially in DC.

  6. #86
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    Re: Are savings from a tax law change "income the tax payer did not earn">

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    Income not earned is income that is grossly disproportional to what the income is being paid for. For example, those who are paid extraordinary sums for doing nothing by shuffling money around so that other people can obtain extraordinary sums. Meanwhile, people who actually make things are getting almost nothing. The first group is making a whole lot of money that wasn't "earned", in the sense of being deserved. The second is making a whole lot less than they deserve.
    completely irrelevant to this thread. MOre class envy nonsense. Lots of people who are not wealthy have investment income even if its interest on a savings account.

  7. #87
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    Re: Are savings from a tax law change "income the tax payer did not earn">

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    This is nonsense. We didn't earn a tax cut, but we earned a stimulas?




    That kind of thinking turns the government into parents. No, dude, the government keeps what we, as voters, let them. You've got it backwards.
    You have obviously never been audited by the IRS. I've had it done three times and I can tell you that they agree with me.

    When was the last time that you voted out an IRS agent?

  8. #88
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    Re: Are savings from a tax law change "income the tax payer did not earn">

    ....that the IRS agrees with you is sort of a point in his favor....

  9. #89
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    Re: Are savings from a tax law change "income the tax payer did not earn">

    So I buy a nice little house in Alabama for $150,000, and I raise my children in it, grow old, and 35 years or so from now, get ready to retire and move down to Florida to be with the other old people. My house has kept up with inflation, which has averaged at 2.5% a year, bringing the house up to $365,000. Mind you, it's still the exact same value, just inflation has cheapened the dollar.

    Yet I'm going to get taxed for $215,000 of "unearned income". Tell me, how the hell is that "unearned income"? In real terms, I didn't even make a dime. Or, if I put in the time and labor to turn my basement into another bedroom with a full bathroom plus a living room, and that boosts the value of my house another $35K, plant some nice trees and do a little landscaping that gets me another $5-7K, and then pay to put in a pool that increases the value of the house by the exact price of the pool, how the hell is that "unearned" income? I went to quite a bit of effort, time, and labor for some of that "income", and paid full price for the pool the first time around.
    Last edited by cpwill; 07-24-12 at 10:38 AM.

  10. #90
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    Re: Are savings from a tax law change "income the tax payer did not earn">

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Yeah I suppose if you are hateful of those who have more prosperity than you do you might feel that way. and many people work very hard investing money. But what I love is the underlying attitude that the government somehow deserves the money more than the person who made it in the first place
    I find it rather curious that you claim to have so many prosperous investments and don't know that the IRS classifies them as "unearned income" on your income tax returns.
    Last edited by Moot; 07-24-12 at 05:52 PM.

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