View Poll Results: Are savings from a tax law change "income the tax payer did not earn"?

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  • Yes, if the government takes less-it is unearned income for you

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  • No-it was money you earned in the first place

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Thread: Are savings from a tax law change "income the tax payer did not earn">

  1. #61
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    Re: Are savings from a tax law change "income the tax payer did not earn">

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    no it's not. that was and is my money that isn't being sent to the government. money from the government, however, is definitely a redistribution payment.
    Use whatever labels you'd like to make yourself feel better about your position. Politicians and their accountant lackeys are particularly good at that. Magicians use the same magic - misdirection - when they pull a rabbit out of their hat.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 07-23-12 at 09:50 AM.
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  2. #62
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    Re: Are savings from a tax law change "income the tax payer did not earn">

    so you have given up and degraded to ad hominem?

  3. #63
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    Re: Are savings from a tax law change "income the tax payer did not earn">

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    on the contrary. it is folks who advocate precisely your approach who draw no distinction between liberty and slavery who are the threat today. those who argue from a position that the state has first dibs on my labor, and leaves me with what it chooses not to take are reversing the critical argument about soveriegnty that our founders paid so much blood for. government derives its' powers from the governed - not the other way around.
    And what approach is that - honesty instead of hiding behind make believe labels?

    Do you think you owe society nothing? Would you take any and all you can from your fellow humans and give them nothing or as little as possible in return? Who's the thief here that you would expect your societal benefits for free?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Ownership (theft) of another. the existence of law does not make me a slave. And I repeat what I said earlier about that being a stunningly stupid argument which ignores the reality of slavery. Only someone utterly unfamiliar with the specifics of that institution could make such an idiotic argument.
    Property Mentality indeed. *shakes head* How would you propose to enforce this ownership/theft?
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
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  4. #64
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    Re: Are savings from a tax law change "income the tax payer did not earn">

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    so you have given up and degraded to ad hominem?
    You did nothing but change a label - the reality didn't change at all. In my world that's called PR, not discussion.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  5. #65
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    Re: Are savings from a tax law change "income the tax payer did not earn">

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    And what approach is that - honesty instead of hiding behind make believe labels?
    No. that is the approach which argues that government has primary dibs on us rather than ourselves. that we are, in fact, the slaves of a particularly beneficial master which allows us to keep a portion of what we earn for it.

    Do you think you owe society nothing?
    there is no such thing as a concrete "society". there is a "civil society", which is the various organic groups formed by individuals and families. However, you seem to be confusing "civil society" with "government". Unless you are referring to the citizenry of the United States, in which case I am one of them, not one of their debtors.

    Would you take any and all you can from your fellow humans and give them nothing or as little as possible in return? Who's the thief here that you would expect your societal benefits for free?
    Hiyah! Ka-Pow! Take that, Straw-Man!

    Who has argued in this thread that there should be no taxation?

    Property Mentality indeed. *shakes head* How would you propose to enforce this ownership/theft?
    I wouldn't. I am not a slaver.

  6. #66
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    Re: Are savings from a tax law change "income the tax payer did not earn">

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I guess even you aren't willing to defend the idiocy
    You are creating your own idiocy where none need exist. No one alive associates paying less tax as unearned income received. Gross income is the earned income, net is what the government lets you keep.

  7. #67
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    Re: Are savings from a tax law change "income the tax payer did not earn">

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Did you actually go back and read the conversation this statement came from? Or are you just talking about the inaccurate portrayal given by TD?

    I'm talking about the tax cuts, which is clearly what Cardinal Fang was also discussing in the original conversation, so "the money itself" really isn't part of the discussion.
    This is nonsense. We didn't earn a tax cut, but we earned a stimulas?


    Quote Originally Posted by Mickey Shane View Post
    You are creating your own idiocy where none need exist. No one alive associates paying less tax as unearned income received. Gross income is the earned income, net is what the government lets you keep.
    That kind of thinking turns the government into parents. No, dude, the government keeps what we, as voters, let them. You've got it backwards.

  8. #68
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    Re: Are savings from a tax law change "income the tax payer did not earn">

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    No. that is the approach which argues that government has primary dibs on us rather than ourselves. that we are, in fact, the slaves of a particularly beneficial master which allows us to keep a portion of what we earn for it.
    We are all slaves according to you and yours. It started the minute YOU (pl) decided owning people was OK.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    there is no such thing as a concrete "society". there is a "civil society", which is the various organic groups formed by individuals and families. However, you seem to be confusing "civil society" with "government". Unless you are referring to the citizenry of the United States, in which case I am one of them, not one of their debtors.
    Dodge.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Who has argued in this thread that there should be no taxation?

    I wouldn't. I am not a slaver.
    You can't support a government on voluntary contributions. That only leaves government with taxation and the ability to enforce said taxation or no government at all. Slavery (government) or freedom (anarchy). What you're arguing isn't qualitative, it's quantitative.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 07-23-12 at 03:27 PM.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  9. #69
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    Re: Are savings from a tax law change "income the tax payer did not earn">

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    This is nonsense. We didn't earn a tax cut, but we earned a stimulas?
    You'll have to consult with Cardinal Fang on exactly where he was going with that discussion - or read more of it. I didn't read into the conversation much past the point of figuring out if he was talking about actual taxes or a tax cut as someone else has said.

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    That kind of thinking turns the government into parents. No, dude, the government keeps what we, as voters, let them. You've got it backwards.
    Agreed.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  10. #70
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    Re: Are savings from a tax law change "income the tax payer did not earn">

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Some posters have claimed that the Bush tax rates (now the Obama tax rates) which resulted in taxpayers receiving "Unearned income". In other words if you made 500K and your pre-Bush tax law Federal income tax was 150K and after the new tax rates were passed your tax became 135K does that 15K savings constitute 15K UNEARNED INCOME to you?
    What an absurd notion.


    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Such a model presupposes that the government owns you and all of your labor, and only allows you to keep portions of it as an incentive to continue to be productive. That notion is (and I don't use this terminology much) fundamentally un-American. Anyone arguing it might feel more at home in the Ottoman Empire, where all subjects were indeed considered the property of the Sultan.
    If I could "Like" this a thousand times, I would.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

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