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Are savings from a tax law change "income the tax payer did not earn">

Are savings from a tax law change "income the tax payer did not earn"?

  • Yes, if the government takes less-it is unearned income for you

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • No-it was money you earned in the first place

    Votes: 20 100.0%
  • Total voters
    20
lpast said:
They should outsource yours and turtles job to china...now when they did that...and you have no income should I be able to deduct you both as dependents...lol gotta love all the word play...
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And there you have it, ladies and gentlemen. This is his response to the people trying to save his medicare from the Obama cuts :).

btw marine are you RICH ?
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nope. I just like freedom :)
 
cpwill said:
distribution payments are indeed someone else's money. money that i don't send to the government is, and remains, my money. If I steal $20 from you, $20 from Turtle, and then mail you each the others' sawbuck, I am still guilty of theft.
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the parasite mentality holds that existing near someone entitles one to his neighbor's wealth. THose who think all wealth belong to the government try to justify handouts to non-earners as balancing less theft from the earners
 
cpwill said:
to believe that you can be free while the government owns you and your labor, and dispenses it back to you only as it see's fit is indeed... well, not irony. more orwellian. :) slavery is freedom.
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Only the Property Mentality allows for that option. I don't believe people are owned by anyone.


Slavery is just another word for society allowing people authority over other people, something that happens in virtually every place of business every day of the week but also happens in other places - like when a cop pulls you over for speeding ...
 
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TurtleDude said:
the parasite mentality holds that existing near someone entitles one to his neighbor's wealth. THose who think all wealth belong to the government try to justify handouts to non-earners as balancing less theft from the earners
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:) This reminds me of my Bastiat

"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in a society, over the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it."
 
MoSurveyor said:
Only the Property Mentality allows for that option. I don't believe people are owned by anyone.
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In this country at least, generally, I agree, and I am dedicated to the task of keeping people like you from changing that. :)

Slavery is just another word for society allowing people authority over other people, something that happens in virtually every place of business every day of the week but also happens in other places - like when a cop pulls you over for speeding ...
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No. The existence of law is not slavery, and that is an incredibly offensive and amazingly stupid analogy.
 
MoSurveyor said:
Only the Property Mentality allows for that option. I don't believe people are owned by anyone.


Slavery is just another word for society allowing people authority over other people, something that happens in virtually every place of business every day of the week but also happens in other places - like when a cop pulls you over for speeding ...
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cutting through the BS-do you believe a tax cut is the same thing as a handout?
 
cpwill said:
In this country at least, generally, I agree, and I am dedicated to the task of keeping people like you from changing that. :)
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People like me??? :lamo It's the Property Mentality types that are buying and selling people, not me and mine.

cpwill said:
No. The existence of law is not slavery, and that is an incredibly offensive and amazingly stupid analogy.
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What is slavery if it's not absolute power over another?
 
TurtleDude said:
cutting through the BS-do you believe a tax cut is the same thing as a handout?
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I certainly don't think getting back $20 from Uncle Sam after giving him $100 is a handout! That particular statement by your lapdog was about the craziest thing I've seen a right-winger come up with yet!!



Ed:
I see you "liked" his post, however, so YOU must agree that it's a handout, in which case your "tax cut" is also a handout.
:2wave:
 
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MoSurveyor said:
I certainly don't think getting back $20 from Uncle Sam after giving him $100 is a handout! That particular statement by your lapdog was about the craziest thing I've seen a right-winger come up with yet!!


Ed:
I see you "liked" his post, however, so YOU must agree that it's a handout, in which case your "tax cut" is also a handout.
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no it's not. that was and is my money that isn't being sent to the government. money from the government, however, is definitely a redistribution payment.
 
MoSurveyor said:
People like me???
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yes. people like you.

:lamo It's the Property Mentality types that are buying and selling people, not me and mine.
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on the contrary. it is folks who advocate precisely your approach who draw no distinction between liberty and slavery who are the threat today. those who argue from a position that the state has first dibs on my labor, and leaves me with what it chooses not to take are reversing the critical argument about soveriegnty that our founders paid so much blood for. government derives its' powers from the governed - not the other way around.

What is slavery if it's not absolute power over another?
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Ownership (theft) of another. the existence of law does not make me a slave. And I repeat what I said earlier about that being a stunningly stupid argument which ignores the reality of slavery. Only someone utterly unfamiliar with the specifics of that institution could make such an idiotic argument.
 
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cpwill said:
no it's not. that was and is my money that isn't being sent to the government. money from the government, however, is definitely a redistribution payment.
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Use whatever labels you'd like to make yourself feel better about your position. Politicians and their accountant lackeys are particularly good at that. Magicians use the same magic - misdirection - when they pull a rabbit out of their hat.
 
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so you have given up and degraded to ad hominem?
 
cpwill said:
on the contrary. it is folks who advocate precisely your approach who draw no distinction between liberty and slavery who are the threat today. those who argue from a position that the state has first dibs on my labor, and leaves me with what it chooses not to take are reversing the critical argument about soveriegnty that our founders paid so much blood for. government derives its' powers from the governed - not the other way around.
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And what approach is that - honesty instead of hiding behind make believe labels?

Do you think you owe society nothing? Would you take any and all you can from your fellow humans and give them nothing or as little as possible in return? Who's the thief here that you would expect your societal benefits for free?

cpwill said:
Ownership (theft) of another. the existence of law does not make me a slave. And I repeat what I said earlier about that being a stunningly stupid argument which ignores the reality of slavery. Only someone utterly unfamiliar with the specifics of that institution could make such an idiotic argument.
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Property Mentality indeed. *shakes head* How would you propose to enforce this ownership/theft?
 
cpwill said:
so you have given up and degraded to ad hominem?
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You did nothing but change a label - the reality didn't change at all. In my world that's called PR, not discussion.
 
MoSurveyor said:
And what approach is that - honesty instead of hiding behind make believe labels?
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No. that is the approach which argues that government has primary dibs on us rather than ourselves. that we are, in fact, the slaves of a particularly beneficial master which allows us to keep a portion of what we earn for it.

Do you think you owe society nothing?
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there is no such thing as a concrete "society". there is a "civil society", which is the various organic groups formed by individuals and families. However, you seem to be confusing "civil society" with "government". Unless you are referring to the citizenry of the United States, in which case I am one of them, not one of their debtors.

Would you take any and all you can from your fellow humans and give them nothing or as little as possible in return? Who's the thief here that you would expect your societal benefits for free?
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:lol: Hiyah! Ka-Pow! Take that, Straw-Man! ;)

Who has argued in this thread that there should be no taxation?

Property Mentality indeed. *shakes head* How would you propose to enforce this ownership/theft?
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I wouldn't. I am not a slaver.
 
TurtleDude said:
I guess even you aren't willing to defend the idiocy
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You are creating your own idiocy where none need exist. No one alive associates paying less tax as unearned income received. Gross income is the earned income, net is what the government lets you keep.
 
MoSurveyor said:
Did you actually go back and read the conversation this statement came from? Or are you just talking about the inaccurate portrayal given by TD?

I'm talking about the tax cuts, which is clearly what Cardinal Fang was also discussing in the original conversation, so "the money itself" really isn't part of the discussion.
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This is nonsense. We didn't earn a tax cut, but we earned a stimulas?


Mickey Shane said:
You are creating your own idiocy where none need exist. No one alive associates paying less tax as unearned income received. Gross income is the earned income, net is what the government lets you keep.
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That kind of thinking turns the government into parents. No, dude, the government keeps what we, as voters, let them. You've got it backwards.
 
cpwill said:
No. that is the approach which argues that government has primary dibs on us rather than ourselves. that we are, in fact, the slaves of a particularly beneficial master which allows us to keep a portion of what we earn for it.
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We are all slaves according to you and yours. It started the minute YOU (pl) decided owning people was OK.

cpwill said:
there is no such thing as a concrete "society". there is a "civil society", which is the various organic groups formed by individuals and families. However, you seem to be confusing "civil society" with "government". Unless you are referring to the citizenry of the United States, in which case I am one of them, not one of their debtors.
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Dodge. :yawn:

cpwill said:
Who has argued in this thread that there should be no taxation?

I wouldn't. I am not a slaver.
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You can't support a government on voluntary contributions. That only leaves government with taxation and the ability to enforce said taxation or no government at all. Slavery (government) or freedom (anarchy). What you're arguing isn't qualitative, it's quantitative.
 
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ecofarm said:
This is nonsense. We didn't earn a tax cut, but we earned a stimulas?
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You'll have to consult with Cardinal Fang on exactly where he was going with that discussion - or read more of it. I didn't read into the conversation much past the point of figuring out if he was talking about actual taxes or a tax cut as someone else has said.

ecofarm said:
That kind of thinking turns the government into parents. No, dude, the government keeps what we, as voters, let them. You've got it backwards.
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Agreed.
 
TurtleDude said:
Some posters have claimed that the Bush tax rates (now the Obama tax rates) which resulted in taxpayers receiving "Unearned income". In other words if you made 500K and your pre-Bush tax law Federal income tax was 150K and after the new tax rates were passed your tax became 135K does that 15K savings constitute 15K UNEARNED INCOME to you?
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What an absurd notion.


cpwill said:
Such a model presupposes that the government owns you and all of your labor, and only allows you to keep portions of it as an incentive to continue to be productive. That notion is (and I don't use this terminology much) fundamentally un-American. Anyone arguing it might feel more at home in the Ottoman Empire, where all subjects were indeed considered the property of the Sultan.
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If I could "Like" this a thousand times, I would.
 
TurtleDude said:
cutting through the BS-do you believe a tax cut is the same thing as a handout?
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It is handout if its on unearned income. You do know what "unearned income" is don't you?
 
MoSurveyor said:
You did nothing but change a label - the reality didn't change at all. In my world that's called PR, not discussion.
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on the contrary, the thing itself is distinct and unique. in my world, we also point out that words are important and definitions matter :)
 
Moot said:
It is handout if its on unearned income. You do know what "unearned income" is don't you?
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More idiocy. So i work hard and make 100K and I invest it and from that investment I make more money


how is that UNEARNED.
 
radcen said:
Please enlighten us.
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I suspect her definition is not based on the tax code definition. many people who don't have the wherewithal to invest wisely think its like winning the lottery.
 
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