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Is Venezuela's Chavez a threat to American National Security?

Is Venezuela's Chavez a threat to American National Security?

  • Yes

    Votes: 5 11.4%
  • No

    Votes: 38 86.4%
  • Other

    Votes: 1 2.3%

  • Total voters
    44
well, the risk there is not from the BRICs. It's from the congresscritters who make them right.
 
Lol why does my opinion matter when I was talking about Chavez's opinion on corporations?
You don't seem to be very certain of Chavez's opinion of corporations. Or your own.

Well that would be your opinion.
Right. Based on the pedigree of the arguments you have trotted out.

Yea well the Religious Right took over the Repbulican party so I am sure some Republicans should be pissed. Not that you hear from them much.
It was the neocons took over the Republican Party, and lacking numbers after throwing out all the paleo's, they then went hard right on "social values" to drag in the Fundie Fringers.

And isnt it amazing that Chavez somehow recovered from cancer at just the right time? But I guess you will believe anything that the Chavista's tell you?
Stick with how the moon landing was fake. That would do your credibility less harm.

Well if you are going to imply that I lied about having friends in Venezuela I would expect you to have more than you just think so.
You can claim whatever you want. But the notion that you have some "inside line" into events and conditions in Venezuela has been pretty much ruled out in any case by assorted right-wing lapdog claims and comments.

Actually it was two links. Which were sites for entertainment. I found it entertaining did you not?
I found them completely ridiculous, as I thought I had made apparent.

But none the less you ignored this link...
And a lot more like it. You should have as well.

Look you can believe whatever it that you want about Hugo Chavez, Believe that he is a harmless leader of a revolution is you please.
There is no such thing as a harmless leader of a revolution. Do you know anything of the murderous history of the notorious US terrorist and revolutionary leader, George Washington?

Buy into all of that state ran propaganda and wash it down with a big glass of kool-aid. But what Chavez has shown us is that Socialism equals oppression of anyone that does not agree with it.
Oppression was the hallmark of the oligarchy. The people of Venezuela have better lives and more opportunity under Chavez, which is why they have voted for him over and over and over again. No one but the feudalists wants to go back to the suffering of the feudal Venezuela that existed for thirty brutal years prior to the Bolivarian revolution.

Tell me why should anyone trust Hugo Chavez?
Trust? Are you naive enough that you would trust ANY politico? Name one if you are...

Here Chavez says he DOES NOT BELIEVE IN GOD. So who prays for his fake cancer cure? This is the liar who says he is on a 3rd chemotherapy session and goes jogging. LIAR never had any cancer. It is a mockery to all Venezuelans who have suffered this terrible disease with chemotherapy and know that nobody gets trotted far from it.
LOL! Have a nice day...
 
You don't seem to be very certain of Chavez's opinion of corporations. Or your own.
Chavez on one hand tells everyone about evil corporations but at the same time uses corporations.


Right. Based on the pedigree of the arguments you have trotted out.
Again thank you for your opinion.


I
t was the neocons took over the Republican Party, and lacking numbers after throwing out all the paleo's, they then went hard right on "social values" to drag in the Fundie Fringers.
Either way I do not agree with them.


Stick with how the moon landing was fake. That would do your credibility less harm.
WHy does your tin foil hat tune in better to the moon landings?


You can claim whatever you want. But the notion that you have some "inside line" into events and conditions in Venezuela has been pretty much ruled out in any case by assorted right-wing lapdog claims and comments.
You questioned what I knew about Venezuela, and countered with what I do know personally. If you do not want to believe me I am not bothered.


I found them completely ridiculous, as I thought I had made apparent.
Well good for you.


And a lot more like it. You should have as well.
Nice argument.

There is no such thing as a harmless leader of a revolution. Do you know anything of the murderous history of the notorious US terrorist and revolutionary leader, George Washington?
Yea But ole George was never a Socialist revolutionary which is entirely different.


Oppression was the hallmark of the oligarchy. The people of Venezuela have better lives and more opportunity under Chavez, which is why they have voted for him over and over and over again. No one but the feudalists wants to go back to the suffering of the feudal Venezuela that existed for thirty brutal years prior to the Bolivarian revolution.
Well that begs the question. I already said that I never supported the prior regimes. And I added that Chavez's regime is not any better. But keep pumping out the propaganda and lies it just proves my point about Socialists.


Trust? Are you naive enough that you would trust ANY politico? Name one if you are...
Cant think of any politician that I would trust in fact as a citizen I believe that I am required not to trust the government. But keep asserting that Chavez somehow is being honest. Face it Chavez is a crook and unless he dies soon you will be eating crow sooner or later.


LOL! Have a nice day...
What you didnt like that blog by a Venezuelan? You did request a blog from a Venezuelan. Well I handed one to you and now you wont even say a thing about? Why am I not surprised?
 
nah, there are plenty of good people who simply mistakenly believe that socialism is a desirable form of political organization. Chavez just isn't one of them, any more than Castro (whom he props up) is.
Again, Canada has done more for Cuba over the years than Chavez, and I suspect that the socialism you see involves the overly vivid imagination of some sort of brutal super-Marxist horror show of slavery and terror. Such hapless hallucinations are common enough, but not nearly so common as the mixed national economies that in fact populate the world. Chavez prescribed doses of socialism for Venezuela upon his arrival in the same way a doctor would prescribe Vitamin C for a patient with scurvy.

...first you tell us that the government is sucking up all the diesel in the country, and then you tell us that Chavez' diesel is going to support innocent farmers and the like. It's not my fault you are stuck defending idiotic propaganda.
Bulletin: Sanctons don't affect those at the top. They affect those at the bottom. Did you learn nothing at all from Iraq? From Gaza? What's that word for doing the same thing over and over and expecting to get a different result?

That is the well-reported reality from the ground. Syria's military has been in the field for 16 months. They didn't have the greatest logistical system to begin with. They have lost territory and had to consolidate lately. That is being driven by, among other things, losses to their ability to maintain maneuver capability. The loss of that territory along with the effects of isolation from all except Iran and Russia have degraded their ability to reinforce and resupply. The importation of diesel is critical to maintaining their maneuver capability. That is why upon receipt Assad was able to launch an offensive, because now he could better support it.
This is Chapter 2 of your on-going fantasy novel of extrapolated over-imagination. To what degree did this supposed lack of maneuverability disturb the Syrian Army in moving hundreds of tanks and heavy artillery batteries to the outskirts of Aleppo? How freely do their helicopter gunships and fixed-wing aircraft move about the skies? The FSA is badly outnumbered and despite the recent Iran-like efforts of outsiders to equip them with RPG's and now tanks of their own, they are way behind in firepower as well.

Have you been paying attention to this at all?
A little.

That is correct, as is the fact that Chavez continues to prop it up.
Venezuela sends oil to Cuba, as it does to the US. Cuba sends doctors, teachers, and ice cream to Venezuela. What do we send? [Hint: machinery, chemicals, medical equipment, and vehicles.]

no but they are and have been allies of Hugo Chavez, who used them as a weapon against the US-backed Colombia.
Pfffft! Chavez was not yet in kindergarten when FARC began its battles against US-backed Colombia. The US is the reason that FARC exists.

which died out with the Cold War. In fact Chavez is a leading voice opposing America's position in the world (read: he intends to be a threat to US interests), and he is allied with Iran, Syria, China, and Russia in this.
Died out? Maybe you missed the 50th Anniversary celebration in Belgrade last year? And the fact that NAM members represent well over half the world's population? Despite your entirely provincial take on the matter, other people and other nations are under no obligation to fall obsequiously into line behind US policy. This is a big world. We are 5% of it. We don't run the show. Others can and do disagree with us. This should be encouraged.

Such as the right to be the worlds largest state supporter of terrorism. That does not exactly make them good guys, nor does it mean that Chavez is to be exonerated for his anti-American alliance with them.
The US has supported more terrorism just in Latin America than Iran has anywhere in the world. US client-states don't have much of a track record on that score on any continent either.

that is incorrect and demonstrates an ignorance of what "client state" entails.
Suppose you explain it then in a way that gets you around the net $1.1 trillion in Chinese financial support to the US.

A straw man is a type of argument and is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.
You would rather see hundreds of thousands of low-income American families freeze in the winter than to have to sacrifice your crude poltical biases to the point of offering a single word of thanks to Hugo Chavez.

In what way was your position "misrepresented"? Try using words this time.
 
I'd say it has much more to fear from the work currently being undertaken by the BRICS countries to replace the US$ as the standard reserve currency. They simply believe it is too risky to maintain a single global currency, especially one as laden down with debt and deficit as the US$.
Japan is actually laden with about double the debt and deficit of the US. The BRIC countries meanwhile are Brazil, Russia, India, and China. Their initial letters are where the mostly useless term comes from. China and Russia among others have wondered whether any single currency can be strong and flexible enough to carry the entire globe through an event as tumultuous as that which emanated from the US-provoked global financial collapse of the mid to late 2000's. There are of course various reserve currencies other than US dollars is use already -- Euros, Japanese yen, UK pounds, Swiss francs, etc. There are also Special Drawings Rights (SDR's) administered by the IMF. SDR's have been in existence since the late 1960's but are themselves merely a weighted blend of dollars, euros, pounds, and yen. I'm not sure what horrors you perceive lurking in the details of all this, but I would hazard a guess that it goes well beyond anything that could be seen as reasonable.
 
Chavez on one hand tells everyone about evil corporations but at the same time uses corporations.
Perhaps unlike some, he has the capacity to perceive shades of gray and rails only against the evil ones who make the lives of millions of people worse in order to benefit the lives of a handful. See, a corporation that delivered free home heating oil to hundreds of thousands of low-income Americans in the winter wouldn't be likely to fall into that category.

You questioned what I knew about Venezuela, and countered with what I do know personally. If you do not want to believe me I am not bothered.
You responded with unsupported fulminations in marionette-like recitation of stick-figure level right-wing fairy tale and allegory.

Yea But ole George was never a Socialist revolutionary which is entirely different.
So terrorism is okay depending on the political label popularly affixed to the perpetrator. Nice.

What you didnt like that blog by a Venezuelan? You did request a blog from a Venezuelan.
No, I didn't make such a request. Any idiot can write a blog. Read a few for proof of the point. There are idiots from all over the spectrum out there. Might help I suppose to be sophisticated enough to be able to recognize them to start out with.
 
Perhaps unlike some, he has the capacity to perceive shades of gray and rails only against the evil ones who make the lives of millions of people worse in order to benefit the lives of a handful. See, a corporation that delivered free home heating oil to hundreds of thousands of low-income Americans in the winter wouldn't be likely to fall into that category.
All corporations make donations so I do not see your point. In fact I live in a mining area and the corrupt corporation that owns most of the mining operations makes many similar donations but that does not somehow forgive them for their dirty deeds. I guess CHavez is forgiven because he offered bribes to our poor people?


You responded with unsupported fulminations in marionette-like recitation of stick-figure level right-wing fairy tale and allegory.
You are the one with your head stuck in the sand pretending that a dishonest man is the savior of the Venezuelan people. take a look at this Anti Chavez rally, those are real Venezuelans under their own freedom voicing their distaste for your hero. Personally I believe them over a tool like yourself.

800px-Anti-chavez_march.jpg



So terrorism is okay depending on the political label popularly affixed to the perpetrator. Nice.
Nice strawman you have going there. Let me know what you are going to say that I meant next ok? I am not going to fall for a silly stunt like this especially when it has nothing to do with anything. It does tell me a few things about you though.


No, I didn't make such a request. Any idiot can write a blog. Read a few for proof of the point. There are idiots from all over the spectrum out there. Might help I suppose to be sophisticated enough to be able to recognize them to start out with.

"Why don't you get down to brass tacks and provide some names and links. I won't wait up though."

I guess any Venezuelan that disagree with you doesn't count huh? How about that anti Chavez rally do you discount those Venezuelan citizens as well?

Tens of thousands protest Hugo Chavez in Venezuela - Telegraph

Riot police block anti-Chavez rally - Taipei Times

The demonstrators said a blacklist barring key opposition candidates from elections and a series of socialist decrees are destroying what’s left of their democracy.


Chavez opponents are also outraged over 26 laws the president just decreed, some of them nearly the same as the socialist measures voters rejected in December.

Wouldnt that be Chavez dictating instead of democracy?

Again lets look at those ant Chavez protesters that you think does not exist.

caracas4.jpg


BTW you are really not making any headway calling me or trying to relate me to the Right. In fact the more you go off on such a ridiculous strawman argument just shows me that you are a hack.
 
All corporations make donations so I do not see your point.
Congratulations this morning to Ruben Limardo, but my actual point re corporations is that you can't expound one. You opened this topic by claiming that it was somehow hypocritical of Chavez to rely on corporations to help implement his policies and have been flipping and flopping and floundering all over the place trying to explain it ever since. Despite such expenditure of energy, you remain at a great distance from that goal.

I guess CHavez is forgiven because he offered bribes to our poor people?
Actually, he sent free home heating oil to hundreds of thousands of low-income American households during the winter. Your unreasoned biases and hatreds prevent you from recognizing this as a generous and compassionate act, while no doubt also preventing you from recognizing the shame of people in the US having been left in a situation to need such assistance to begin with. Rath should be focused here on the vindictive Republican cheapskates in Washington who seek to shower the rich with tax breaks while slashing cold-weather home heating assistance to the poor.

You are the one with your head stuck in the sand pretending that a dishonest man is the savior of the Venezuelan people.
Regale us with some tales from the days of the oligarchy, why don't you. You know, back when fewer than two dozen families ran the country as their private playground and real average incomes of poverty-crippled ordinary folks were declining year after year after year across three decades of economic ond other forms of exploitation and brutality. Tell us again why those people should be brought back and put in charge again.

...take a look at this Anti Chavez rally, those are real Venezuelans under their own freedom voicing their distaste for your hero.
Somehow these people have been a minority for a long time, a time during which the lives and conditions of real Venezuelan people have been improving. Are you suggesting that the majority that has consistently voted for Chavez is NOT comprised of real Venezuelans?

Personally I believe them over a tool like yourself.
It's plain enough to me that you'll swallow any pack of lies at all so long as it conforms to your preset package of personal biases and hatreds.

Nice strawman you have going there.
Not a strawman. You've made it apparent that you will excuse or condemn terrorism depending upon the politics of the person or people conducting it. That's a pretty weak not to mention contemptible stance.

"Why don't you get down to brass tacks and provide some names and links. I won't wait up though."
Posted with reference to your claim of personally speaking with people in Venezuela. Now it turns out that from ime to time you read a couple of right-wing blogs. Big insider and expert you are.

I guess any Venezuelan that disagree with you doesn't count huh? How about that anti Chavez rally do you discount those Venezuelan citizens as well?
Not at all. It's always possible that Chavez will lose in the fall. Perhaps in that case, the new government will send a bill to the hundreds of thousands of low-income American households who previosuly received free home-heating oil through Chavez's efforts. That would be so like them.
 
Congratulations this morning to Ruben Limardo, but my actual point re corporations is that you can't expound one. You opened this topic by claiming that it was somehow hypocritical of Chavez to rely on corporations to help implement his policies and have been flipping and flopping and floundering all over the place trying to explain it ever since. Despite such expenditure of energy, you remain at a great distance from that goal.
Well then if Hugo Chavez has nothing against corporations then he is not really a Socialist now is he?


"Drink Juice not Pepsi or Coca-cola." Hugo CHavez It would seem that Chavez only hates corporations that he does not control. Sounds hypocritical to me.

Actually, he sent free home heating oil to hundreds of thousands of low-income American households during the winter. Your unreasoned biases and hatreds prevent you from recognizing this as a generous and compassionate act, while no doubt also preventing you from recognizing the shame of people in the US having been left in a situation to need such assistance to begin with. Rath should be focused here on the vindictive Republican cheapskates in Washington who seek to shower the rich with tax breaks while slashing cold-weather home heating assistance to the poor.
Yes and kings take care of their peasants too. But that does not make monarchies a good thing. BTW give up the strawman arguments already. The only reason that Chavez is giving anything to Americans is to make us look bad. It is Hugo's personal propaganda campaign. And only a naive fool would refuse to accept that.

Regale us with some tales from the days of the oligarchy, why don't you. You know, back when fewer than two dozen families ran the country as their private playground and real average incomes of poverty-crippled ordinary folks were declining year after year after year across three decades of economic ond other forms of exploitation and brutality. Tell us again why those people should be brought back and put in charge again.
More strawman BS. I never in my life have supported the corrupt governments of Venezuela. Just because I recognize that Chavez is another corrupt regime does not mean that I somehow now support the other assholes.


Somehow these people have been a minority for a long time, a time during which the lives and conditions of real Venezuelan people have been improving. Are you suggesting that the majority that has consistently voted for Chavez is NOT comprised of real Venezuelans?
No I am saying that the elections are not fair. As long as Chavez is alive or someone else in his regime is in control the opposition will not win. And even if a i am wrong and the opposition wins it wont matter since Chavez owns the military and will simply take bake control. In October or there after we will all see what happens. And when Chavez shows his true nature again I will be here to point it out. WHich will be enjoyable for me but not for Venezuelans.


It's plain enough to me that you'll swallow any pack of lies at all so long as it conforms to your preset package of personal biases and hatreds.
And it is plain to me that you are a tool.


Not a strawman. You've made it apparent that you will excuse or condemn terrorism depending upon the politics of the person or people conducting it. That's a pretty weak not to mention contemptible stance.
No you said that which makes it your strawman argument fool.


Posted with reference to your claim of personally speaking with people in Venezuela. Now it turns out that from ime to time you read a couple of right-wing blogs. Big insider and expert you are.
Believe whatever you want I really do not care what you think of me or who you believe that I know. I just find it amazing that you have ignored the anti Chavez rallies as if they do not exist.


Not at all. It's always possible that Chavez will lose in the fall. Perhaps in that case, the new government will send a bill to the hundreds of thousands of low-income American households who previosuly received free home-heating oil through Chavez's efforts. That would be so like them.
We do not need Chavez's bribes we need to get off of using fuel oil. Fuel oil is a primitive method of heating that is pasts time since it is inefficient and expensive. All that Chavez is achieving is keeping his customers hooked while earning browny points with tools like you. Lol its amateur propaganda at that.
 
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