View Poll Results: Is Venezuela's Chavez a threat to American National Security?

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Thread: Is Venezuela's Chavez a threat to American National Security?

  1. #121
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    Re: Is Venezuela's Chavez a threat to American National Security?

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Corporate social responsibility = Propaganda to hide the fact that you are doing something bad.
    So unlike Chavez, you believe that "Corporations" are the most vile thing on earth?

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Just because I am against a Leftist I must be a Right winger?
    No, the pedigree of the idiot arguments you have trotted out here suggests it. I thought I had made that point clear already.

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    I am also anti-Christian Right does that make me a Left winger too?
    What sort of misguided question is that? Are you suggesting some notion that only left-wingers oppose the Christian right?

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    My basis is the ten hour long speeches that Hugo Chavez has made describing Corporations as the most vile things on Earth.
    LOL! Yeah, you two are peas in a pod when it comes to "Corporations". Meanwhile, Chave spoke at great length only to demonstrate that he is recovered from cancer and has the vigor and determination needed both to campaign and to govern for another term.

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    What do you have surveillance equipment on my PC?
    No, I'm just not nearly so naively gullible as you may have hoped.

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Social media and blogs though are in this case much more reliable.
    Why don't you get down to brass tacks and provide some names and links. I won't wait up though.

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Ok then prove me wrong show me what Hugo Chavez is worth?
    It's your Bozo the Clown claim. You made it based on the reporting of an entirely phony website. And you STILL want people to take you seriously? I don't think that's happening.

  2. #122
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    Re: Is Venezuela's Chavez a threat to American National Security?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Fang View Post
    So unlike Chavez, you believe that "Corporations" are the most vile thing on earth?
    Lol why dos my opinion matter when I was talking about Chavez's opinion on corporations?

    No, the pedigree of the idiot arguments you have trotted out here suggests it. I thought I had made that point clear already.
    Well that would be your opinion.


    What sort of misguided question is that? Are you suggesting some notion that only left-wingers oppose the Christian right?
    Yea well the Religious Right took over the Repbulican party so I am sure some Republicans should be pissed. Not that you hear from them much.


    LOL! Yeah, you two are peas in a pod when it comes to "Corporations". Meanwhile, Chave spoke at great length only to demonstrate that he is recovered from cancer and has the vigor and determination needed both to campaign and to govern for another term.
    Well Im not hypocritical about corporations so I do not know what you are going on about. And isnt it amazing that Chavez somehow recovered from cancer at just the right time? But I guess you will believe anything that the Chavista's tell you?


    No, I'm just not nearly so naively gullible as you may have hoped.
    Well if you are going to imply that I lied about having friends in Venezuela I would expect you to have more than you just think so.


    Why don't you get down to brass tacks and provide some names and links. I won't wait up though.
    You do know how to use google right? Or are you going to assert that no Venezuelans have internet?


    It's your Bozo the Clown claim. You made it based on the reporting of an entirely phony website. And you STILL want people to take you seriously? I don't think that's happening.
    Actually it was two links. Which were sites for entertainment. I found it entertaining did you not? But none the less you ignored this link: Accusations of corruption hit Chavez clan - Houston Chronicle "They are not the same poor family as before," Cartay said. "It's hard to hide wealth in a small state like Barinas."

    Policia Impide Caminata De Capriles En La Parroquia La Vega - Nacional Y Politica - El Universal

    Police prevents Capriles walk in the parish of La Vega
    Police officers prevented the Bolivarian National to undertake the walk opposition candidate in the presidential elections of October 7, Henrique Capriles. The applicant described the measure as a violation of election rules. "These abuses need to be more hope, more strength, more light to beat the Oct. 7" he said.



    https://www.whatsnextvenezuela.com/n...air-elections/

    Human Rights Watch report: Venezuela President Hugo Chavez abusing power | GlobalPost

    LAS FOTOS QUE CHAVEZ NO QUIERE QUE VEAS

    Look you can believe whatever it that you want about Hugo Chavez, Believe that he is a harmless leader of a revolution is you please. Buy into all of that state ran propaganda and wash it down with a big glass of kool-aid. But what Chavez has shown us is that Socialism equals oppression of anyone that does not agree with it.


    Tell me why should anyone trust Hugo Chavez?




    Here is Your hero Hugo Chavez cruising in his Bentley, one of the most expensive cars in the world. How does a poor slop like Hugo buy a 300k dollar car? Hugo Chavez y su Bentley, unico en Vzla, cuesta 500 mil $ - Taringa!

    LAS FOTOS QUE CHAVEZ NO QUIERE QUE VEAS: María Corina Machado: Usted se ha dedicado a Expropiar que es Robar

    Here is the dictator saying that the victory of the opposition (MORE THAN HALF OF THE VENEZUELAN) was a VICTORY OF ****. That is the garbage we have of President, this, is the crap that governs us until this year, if Venezuela decides to force change. Here chavez curses Israel. But what kind of demon governs us? forum here tells the evangelical Christian who is going to hell because the proposal is "divine" of "Christ the redeemer of the poor." This peazo and crazy it is believed the Messiah??? chavez evidently believes God is a poor madman who rules us. Here Chavez says he DOES NOT BELIEVE IN GOD. So who prays for his fake cancer cure? This is the liar who says he is on a 3rd chemotherapy session and goes jogging. LIAR never had any cancer. It is a mockery to all Venezuelans who have suffered this terrible disease with chemotherapy and know that nobody gets trotted far from it.

  3. #123
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    Re: Is Venezuela's Chavez a threat to American National Security?

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    Mitt Romney: Venezuela

    Do you agree with Romney that Chavez poses a direct national security threat to the U.S.A, or do you think this is nothing more than fear mongering against socialism in Latin America that shouldn't be taken so seriously?

    This story has been posted elsewhere on this forum but i am seeking to establish consensus amongst American users on DP through the use of a poll, to see if they agree or disagree with Mitt.
    It's not very difficult to see that our current government has gone corrupt and are a direct national security threat not only to the U.S.A, but the entire world. God save us if Romney gets into office.

  4. #124
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    Re: Is Venezuela's Chavez a threat to American National Security?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Fang View Post
    That might be because only the rantings of deranged sociophobes stand to the contrary.
    nah, there are plenty of good people who simply mistakenly believe that socialism is a desirable form of political organization. Chavez just isn't one of them, any more than Castro (whom he props up) is.

    LOL!
    first you tell us that the government is sucking up all the diesel in the country, and then you tell us that Chavez' diesel is going to support innocent farmers and the like. It's not my fault you are stuck defending idiotic propaganda.

    You are on the ground in Syria then, I take it, and not at all just making this stuff up in your living room?
    That is the well-reported reality from the ground. Syria's military has been in the field for 16 months. They didn't have the greatest logistical system to begin with. They have lost territory and had to consolidate lately. That is being driven by, among other things, losses to their ability to maintain maneuver capability. The loss of that territory along with the effects of isolation from all except Iran and Russia have degraded their ability to reinforce and resupply. The importation of diesel is critical to maintaining their maneuver capability. That is why upon receipt Assad was able to launch an offensive, because now he could better support it.

    Have you been paying attention to this at all?

    WARNING: No facts were used in the manufacture of this post. It contains 100% pure, unrefined bias fortified with such essential nutrients as personal assumptions and suppositions having no actual or direct relation to reality at all.
    No, I see you have not.

    The "Castro regime" has run Cuba for fifty years.
    That is correct, as is the fact that Chavez continues to prop it up.

    FARC is a group of dedicated Colombian Marxists that's been around for decades. They use bases in Ecuador and Venezuela for training and as hiding places. They are not actually the friends of anyone.
    no but they are and have been allies of Hugo Chavez, who used them as a weapon against the US-backed Colombia.

    Chavez has been a leading voice espousing the causes of the Non-Aligned Movement.
    which died out with the Cold War. In fact Chavez is a leading voice opposing America's position in the world (read: he intends to be a threat to US interests), and he is allied with Iran, Syria, China, and Russia in this.

    Iran is also a member and has rights that even American bloviators need to respect.
    Such as the right to be the worlds largest state supporter of terrorism. That does not exactly make them good guys, nor does it mean that Chavez is to be exonerated for his anti-American alliance with them.

    Nobody is a bigger client of the PRC than the United States.
    that is incorrect and demonstrates an ignorance of what "client state" entails.

    That's not a strawman at all
    A straw man is a type of argument and is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.

    good ole wikipedia.

  5. #125
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    Re: Is Venezuela's Chavez a threat to American National Security?

    As 84% of voters have noted, it's not Chavez's Venezuela that poses a threat to US interests. (I'd be curious to know how the OP defines 'American National Security'. Are we talking merely militarily, or are we looking at self-perceived US military, economic and social interests in general?) As far as the US's long-term overall national interests are concerned, I'd say it has much more to fear from the work currently being undertaken by the BRICS countries to replace the US$ as the standard reserve currency. They simply believe it is too risky to maintain a single global currency, especially one as laden down with debt and deficit as the US$.
    "The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

    "Austerity is used as a cover to reconfigure society and increase inequality and injustice." - Jeremy Corbyn

  6. #126
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    Re: Is Venezuela's Chavez a threat to American National Security?

    well, the risk there is not from the BRICs. It's from the congresscritters who make them right.

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    Re: Is Venezuela's Chavez a threat to American National Security?

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Lol why does my opinion matter when I was talking about Chavez's opinion on corporations?
    You don't seem to be very certain of Chavez's opinion of corporations. Or your own.

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Well that would be your opinion.
    Right. Based on the pedigree of the arguments you have trotted out.

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Yea well the Religious Right took over the Repbulican party so I am sure some Republicans should be pissed. Not that you hear from them much.
    It was the neocons took over the Republican Party, and lacking numbers after throwing out all the paleo's, they then went hard right on "social values" to drag in the Fundie Fringers.

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    And isnt it amazing that Chavez somehow recovered from cancer at just the right time? But I guess you will believe anything that the Chavista's tell you?
    Stick with how the moon landing was fake. That would do your credibility less harm.

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Well if you are going to imply that I lied about having friends in Venezuela I would expect you to have more than you just think so.
    You can claim whatever you want. But the notion that you have some "inside line" into events and conditions in Venezuela has been pretty much ruled out in any case by assorted right-wing lapdog claims and comments.

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Actually it was two links. Which were sites for entertainment. I found it entertaining did you not?
    I found them completely ridiculous, as I thought I had made apparent.

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    But none the less you ignored this link...
    And a lot more like it. You should have as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Look you can believe whatever it that you want about Hugo Chavez, Believe that he is a harmless leader of a revolution is you please.
    There is no such thing as a harmless leader of a revolution. Do you know anything of the murderous history of the notorious US terrorist and revolutionary leader, George Washington?

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Buy into all of that state ran propaganda and wash it down with a big glass of kool-aid. But what Chavez has shown us is that Socialism equals oppression of anyone that does not agree with it.
    Oppression was the hallmark of the oligarchy. The people of Venezuela have better lives and more opportunity under Chavez, which is why they have voted for him over and over and over again. No one but the feudalists wants to go back to the suffering of the feudal Venezuela that existed for thirty brutal years prior to the Bolivarian revolution.

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Tell me why should anyone trust Hugo Chavez?
    Trust? Are you naive enough that you would trust ANY politico? Name one if you are...

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Here Chavez says he DOES NOT BELIEVE IN GOD. So who prays for his fake cancer cure? This is the liar who says he is on a 3rd chemotherapy session and goes jogging. LIAR never had any cancer. It is a mockery to all Venezuelans who have suffered this terrible disease with chemotherapy and know that nobody gets trotted far from it.
    LOL! Have a nice day...

  8. #128
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    Re: Is Venezuela's Chavez a threat to American National Security?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Fang View Post
    You don't seem to be very certain of Chavez's opinion of corporations. Or your own.
    Chavez on one hand tells everyone about evil corporations but at the same time uses corporations.


    Right. Based on the pedigree of the arguments you have trotted out.
    Again thank you for your opinion.


    I
    t was the neocons took over the Republican Party, and lacking numbers after throwing out all the paleo's, they then went hard right on "social values" to drag in the Fundie Fringers.
    Either way I do not agree with them.


    Stick with how the moon landing was fake. That would do your credibility less harm.
    WHy does your tin foil hat tune in better to the moon landings?


    You can claim whatever you want. But the notion that you have some "inside line" into events and conditions in Venezuela has been pretty much ruled out in any case by assorted right-wing lapdog claims and comments.
    You questioned what I knew about Venezuela, and countered with what I do know personally. If you do not want to believe me I am not bothered.


    I found them completely ridiculous, as I thought I had made apparent.
    Well good for you.


    And a lot more like it. You should have as well.
    Nice argument.

    There is no such thing as a harmless leader of a revolution. Do you know anything of the murderous history of the notorious US terrorist and revolutionary leader, George Washington?
    Yea But ole George was never a Socialist revolutionary which is entirely different.


    Oppression was the hallmark of the oligarchy. The people of Venezuela have better lives and more opportunity under Chavez, which is why they have voted for him over and over and over again. No one but the feudalists wants to go back to the suffering of the feudal Venezuela that existed for thirty brutal years prior to the Bolivarian revolution.
    Well that begs the question. I already said that I never supported the prior regimes. And I added that Chavez's regime is not any better. But keep pumping out the propaganda and lies it just proves my point about Socialists.


    Trust? Are you naive enough that you would trust ANY politico? Name one if you are...
    Cant think of any politician that I would trust in fact as a citizen I believe that I am required not to trust the government. But keep asserting that Chavez somehow is being honest. Face it Chavez is a crook and unless he dies soon you will be eating crow sooner or later.


    LOL! Have a nice day...
    What you didnt like that blog by a Venezuelan? You did request a blog from a Venezuelan. Well I handed one to you and now you wont even say a thing about? Why am I not surprised?

  9. #129
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    Re: Is Venezuela's Chavez a threat to American National Security?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    nah, there are plenty of good people who simply mistakenly believe that socialism is a desirable form of political organization. Chavez just isn't one of them, any more than Castro (whom he props up) is.
    Again, Canada has done more for Cuba over the years than Chavez, and I suspect that the socialism you see involves the overly vivid imagination of some sort of brutal super-Marxist horror show of slavery and terror. Such hapless hallucinations are common enough, but not nearly so common as the mixed national economies that in fact populate the world. Chavez prescribed doses of socialism for Venezuela upon his arrival in the same way a doctor would prescribe Vitamin C for a patient with scurvy.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    ...first you tell us that the government is sucking up all the diesel in the country, and then you tell us that Chavez' diesel is going to support innocent farmers and the like. It's not my fault you are stuck defending idiotic propaganda.
    Bulletin: Sanctons don't affect those at the top. They affect those at the bottom. Did you learn nothing at all from Iraq? From Gaza? What's that word for doing the same thing over and over and expecting to get a different result?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    That is the well-reported reality from the ground. Syria's military has been in the field for 16 months. They didn't have the greatest logistical system to begin with. They have lost territory and had to consolidate lately. That is being driven by, among other things, losses to their ability to maintain maneuver capability. The loss of that territory along with the effects of isolation from all except Iran and Russia have degraded their ability to reinforce and resupply. The importation of diesel is critical to maintaining their maneuver capability. That is why upon receipt Assad was able to launch an offensive, because now he could better support it.
    This is Chapter 2 of your on-going fantasy novel of extrapolated over-imagination. To what degree did this supposed lack of maneuverability disturb the Syrian Army in moving hundreds of tanks and heavy artillery batteries to the outskirts of Aleppo? How freely do their helicopter gunships and fixed-wing aircraft move about the skies? The FSA is badly outnumbered and despite the recent Iran-like efforts of outsiders to equip them with RPG's and now tanks of their own, they are way behind in firepower as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Have you been paying attention to this at all?
    A little.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    That is correct, as is the fact that Chavez continues to prop it up.
    Venezuela sends oil to Cuba, as it does to the US. Cuba sends doctors, teachers, and ice cream to Venezuela. What do we send? [Hint: machinery, chemicals, medical equipment, and vehicles.]

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    no but they are and have been allies of Hugo Chavez, who used them as a weapon against the US-backed Colombia.
    Pfffft! Chavez was not yet in kindergarten when FARC began its battles against US-backed Colombia. The US is the reason that FARC exists.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    which died out with the Cold War. In fact Chavez is a leading voice opposing America's position in the world (read: he intends to be a threat to US interests), and he is allied with Iran, Syria, China, and Russia in this.
    Died out? Maybe you missed the 50th Anniversary celebration in Belgrade last year? And the fact that NAM members represent well over half the world's population? Despite your entirely provincial take on the matter, other people and other nations are under no obligation to fall obsequiously into line behind US policy. This is a big world. We are 5% of it. We don't run the show. Others can and do disagree with us. This should be encouraged.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Such as the right to be the worlds largest state supporter of terrorism. That does not exactly make them good guys, nor does it mean that Chavez is to be exonerated for his anti-American alliance with them.
    The US has supported more terrorism just in Latin America than Iran has anywhere in the world. US client-states don't have much of a track record on that score on any continent either.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    that is incorrect and demonstrates an ignorance of what "client state" entails.
    Suppose you explain it then in a way that gets you around the net $1.1 trillion in Chinese financial support to the US.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    A straw man is a type of argument and is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.
    You would rather see hundreds of thousands of low-income American families freeze in the winter than to have to sacrifice your crude poltical biases to the point of offering a single word of thanks to Hugo Chavez.

    In what way was your position "misrepresented"? Try using words this time.

  10. #130
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    Re: Is Venezuela's Chavez a threat to American National Security?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    I'd say it has much more to fear from the work currently being undertaken by the BRICS countries to replace the US$ as the standard reserve currency. They simply believe it is too risky to maintain a single global currency, especially one as laden down with debt and deficit as the US$.
    Japan is actually laden with about double the debt and deficit of the US. The BRIC countries meanwhile are Brazil, Russia, India, and China. Their initial letters are where the mostly useless term comes from. China and Russia among others have wondered whether any single currency can be strong and flexible enough to carry the entire globe through an event as tumultuous as that which emanated from the US-provoked global financial collapse of the mid to late 2000's. There are of course various reserve currencies other than US dollars is use already -- Euros, Japanese yen, UK pounds, Swiss francs, etc. There are also Special Drawings Rights (SDR's) administered by the IMF. SDR's have been in existence since the late 1960's but are themselves merely a weighted blend of dollars, euros, pounds, and yen. I'm not sure what horrors you perceive lurking in the details of all this, but I would hazard a guess that it goes well beyond anything that could be seen as reasonable.

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