View Poll Results: Would You Rather Have Obamacare or a System of UHC?

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  • "Obamacare"

    8 14.81%
  • Universal Health Care

    46 85.19%
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Thread: "Obamacare" or UHC?

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    Here are the few I'm aware of:
    1. Removal of health insurance lifetime benefit cap (surely this would be a tiny increase, and to be honest I had no problem with the cap).
    How much of our health care is provided to people in their last year of life? This could be huge.

    2. Coverage of pre-existings. I think this would be a rather small increase as well.
    Wrong. People can opt to pay the tax until they get sick and need tons of medical care. Like waiting until the car accident to take out a policy with GEICO. That leads to astronomical increases.

    3. 100% coverage of preventative care. I think this will be a wash (cost to insurance company will be offset by lower costs down the road).
    Correct that it will raise costs, wrong that it will be offset. A minimal number of conditions caught preventatively save money overall when you consider the aggregate number of folks getting screened/tested. Especially when outpatient clinic care in the US is already more than twice as expensive as the next most expensive country.


    Overall, you must agree that calling this the "Affordable Care Act" is an enormous deception.

  2. #62
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    Re: "Obamacare" or UHC?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    [...] The idea that states can't be united in a basic way and left to govern themselves beyond that is a fast track to anarchy is profoundly insane.
    There is much evidence to support that insanity, both current and historical. I'll look forward to your new thread

  3. #63
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    Re: "Obamacare" or UHC?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    How much of our health care is provided to people in their last year of life? This could be huge.
    Indeed, but Obamacare does little to address that AFAIK. In fact, when it did try to address it at the most minimalist level by paying doctors for advising on living wills, nutcases like Sarah Palin and Fox News frothed at the mouth over so-called Death Panels.

  4. #64
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    Re: "Obamacare" or UHC?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Wrong. People can opt to pay the tax until they get sick and need tons of medical care. Like waiting until the car accident to take out a policy with GEICO. That leads to astronomical increases.
    While that will need to be addressed (I'm thinking the current monetary penalty/tax could be modified to include limb removal, or at the very least public caning), such gamers of the system will incur no additional overall system cost than what they are incurring now by simply being uninsured until their ailment reaches emergency status, at which point hospitals and doctors must treat them essentially for free (recouping the cost from others).

    At least under Obamacare they're paying the fine/tax/whatever. Now they're paying nothing. But as I noted, the penalty must be made more painful -- somehow, some way.

  5. #65
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    Re: "Obamacare" or UHC?

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    You've been around here long enough to know the answer to that
    That's not an answer.
    You made a false statement, in an attempt to ridicule a political belief system, using hyperbole and just plain ole false information.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    Indeed, but Obamacare does little to address that AFAIK. In fact, when it did try to address it at the most minimalist level by paying doctors for advising on living wills, nutcases like Sarah Palin and Fox News frothed at the mouth over so-called Death Panels.
    They were idiots to raise alarm to this. If government is going to step in, it absolutely must stiff someone. Our costs will become less affordable if we don't deny anyone and cover everyone's every complaint. Restrictions are desperately necessary. They should have been advocating for death panels, not freaking out about them.

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    Re: "Obamacare" or UHC?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Yeah, the world has that - they call it "Hong Kong".
    For my five budgets, I have increased government expenditure by nearly 70 per cent. This exceeds GDP growth of 21 per cent for the same period. Dedicated to education, medical services, and social welfare to cater for public needs in such areas, this spending also helps invest in the future and sustain economic vibrancy. The increase in expenditure demonstrates our commitment, and confidence in Hong Kong.
    -- HK Financial Secretary John Tsang, February 2011

  8. #68
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    Re: "Obamacare" or UHC?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quag View Post
    UHC but then I am Canadian. I see Obamacare as being pretty much the worst possible way to go. It is a tax on those who can least afford it and will make it even harder to move to a UHC system. You guys should have looked around the world taken the best ideas and tried to come up with something even better, instead you got this monstrosity.
    Because we Americans, collectively, are secure in our arrogance to believe that whatever other nations do must somehow be inferior to what we do. Sometimes that is correct. Just because somebody else does it a different way, doesn't automatically mean that is a better way. But, sometimes it IS a better way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Obomneycare...
    I like that. I'm gonna steal it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    This is simply not true. Most people who can't afford it will either get free Medicaid, or receive a generous subsidy for private health insurance. And the few who still can't afford it will get a financial hardship exemption from the mandate.
    How do we define "can't afford"? Some arbitrary number on a spreadsheet?


    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    ...I don't understand why the government didn't simply envelope everyone into Medicare and call it a day.
    That's just crazy-talk!
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

  9. #69
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    Re: "Obamacare" or UHC?

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    Can you name some of those things?

    Here are the few I'm aware of:
    1. Removal of health insurance lifetime benefit cap (surely this would be a tiny increase, and to be honest I had no problem with the cap).
    2. Coverage of pre-existings. I think this would be a rather small increase as well.
    3. 100% coverage of preventative care. I think this will be a wash (cost to insurance company will be offset by lower costs down the road).

    4. Some tax on medical devices. I don't use any medical devices, but I can see a tiny increase in overall insurance expenditures.

    So... what ya got?
    I think a tax on medical devices will be way bigger than people realize and it could be a jobs killer. We have an aging population and there are all kinds of "devices" people need from replacement hips, knees, joints etc plus combined with all the devices found in hospitals and doctors offices, x-rays, cat scans, mri's to name a few. Also I have heard this tax is only placed on American made devices (not sure if true) but if it is, how long before those jobs at Hill-Rom, GE, Strycker will be sent overseas?

  10. #70
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    Re: "Obamacare" or UHC?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Correct that it will raise costs, wrong that it will be offset. A minimal number of conditions caught preventatively save money overall when you consider the aggregate number of folks getting screened/tested. Especially when outpatient clinic care in the US is already more than twice as expensive as the next most expensive country.

    Overall, you must agree that calling this the "Affordable Care Act" is an enormous deception.
    I know of no name of any legislation that is not an enormous deception.

    You may be correct on the preventative cost; I'm shooting from the hip with no studies to back up my assumption. However, the poster I was replying to similarly had no data to justify his claims, which was my central point. What I provided was simply to prevent repetition should any reply have been forthcoming.

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