View Poll Results: Would You Rather Have Obamacare or a System of UHC?

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  • "Obamacare"

    8 14.81%
  • Universal Health Care

    46 85.19%
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Thread: "Obamacare" or UHC?

  1. #41
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    Re: "Obamacare" or UHC?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Everyone whose annual income is less than $44,680 (for an individual) or $92,200 (for a family of four) will get subsidies to help them pay for health insurance. That's not exactly dire poverty, or anything close to it. If at that level of income, you can't afford health insurance and you can't afford to pay the tax, then you're doing it wrong.
    depends on where you live 44K a year in NYC is not the same a 44k in some small town in Alabama.
    Last edited by Quag; 07-17-12 at 04:21 PM.
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  2. #42
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    Re: "Obamacare" or UHC?

    Quote Originally Posted by OhIsee.Then View Post
    Oh, but they would have been forced to pay for his insurance indirectly, that is so unfair. He had exposure to Agent Orange in the military which is most likely the root cause of his heart attack but our government wasn't giving into that claim, and that saves us on taxes. Since they chose not to have insurance wouldn't the fairest thing to do is not accept him into the ER. It would have saved everyone money. (This side of the the issue is so much fun!)
    I do not see where in this example UHC would be worse than obamacare.
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  3. #43
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    Re: "Obamacare" or UHC?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quag View Post
    depends on where you live 44K a year in NYC is not the same a 44k in some small town in Alabama.
    Then don't live in NYC. This is like saying that 44K doesn't go as far after you make a car payment on a Ferrari as it does after you make a car payment on a Camry. No one is forcing you to own a car you can't afford, and no one is forcing you to live in a city you can't afford.
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  4. #44
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    Re: "Obamacare" or UHC?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Everyone whose annual income is less than $44,680 (for an individual) or $92,200 (for a family of four) will get subsidies to help them pay for health insurance. That's not exactly dire poverty, or anything close to it. If at that level of income, you can't afford health insurance and you can't afford to pay the tax, then you're doing it wrong.
    But look at that from the OTHER side. EVERYONE that makes more than $44,680 (or $92,200 for a family) will simply pay MORE to get the same medical care that they now enjoy (except with a longer waiting line). If that is "fair" to you then fine, but many see that as simply the income redistribution that it really is. The PPACA has many things that INCREASE the current cost of medical care and its related mandated medical care insurance, yet little, if anything, that reduces those costs except mere hope, or treatment change mandates backed by the IPAB "rationing" that will occur later.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
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  5. #45
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    Re: "Obamacare" or UHC?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Then don't live in NYC. This is like saying that 44K doesn't go as far after you make a car payment on a Ferrari as it does after you make a car payment on a Camry. No one is forcing you to own a car you can't afford, and no one is forcing you to live in a city you can't afford.
    No one is forced to but people do live in more expensive areas with lesser salaries. if your job is in NYC you can live in NYC or commute. Some choose to spend more on housing and less commuting others vice versa. We are talking the future here as taxes aren`t really in yet so I`ll guess we shall just have to wait and see.
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    Re: "Obamacare" or UHC?

    Quote Originally Posted by Smart View Post
    We had one. It was called the United States of America.
    Until the experiment failed somewhere around the 1850's. Some still haven't recovered.

    Otherwise UHC is the clearly superior plan. The only problem with it is that you can't get there from here. You have to go the long way around. The lives and health of millions of Americans depend from minute to minute on the health care system however it's defined continuing to function smoothly and effectively. The jobs that support millions of American households and families are wound up in various aspects of the health care industry. Their ability to function depends on our remembering to bring them along. We in fact have to bring everyone of every sort and stripe along if reforms are to work. That is why we begin with baby steps and hope to take larger ones as we go. Doubters can look at Social Security as it is today and compare it to what was passed in 1935. It has been bent and twisted and updated and rebenched a dozen times over 75 years. The same will happen with HCR and each new step will take us closer to where we need to go. There is no other way to get there.
    Last edited by Cardinal Fang; 07-17-12 at 05:02 PM.

  7. #47
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    Re: "Obamacare" or UHC?

    Pretty good poll, but there's not just one type of universal health care. The systems used in Germany, the UK, and Canada are very different from one another. These systems are as different from each other as they are from ours.

  8. #48
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    Re: "Obamacare" or UHC?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    But look at that from the OTHER side. EVERYONE that makes more than $44,680 (or $92,200 for a family) will simply pay MORE to get the same medical care that they now enjoy (except with a longer waiting line).
    To me it seems quite unfair to expect the poor to just go without medical care and die, so that you can get non-emergency surgery a week earlier. And if your response is that the poor already have access to medical care, then there shouldn't be any change in the length of the waiting line.

    If that is "fair" to you then fine, but many see that as simply the income redistribution that it really is.
    I see it as both.

    The PPACA has many things that INCREASE the current cost of medical care and its related mandated medical care insurance, yet little, if anything, that reduces those costs except mere hope, or treatment change mandates backed by the IPAB "rationing" that will occur later.
    You can casually dismiss the IPAB as "mere hope" if you like, but the experience of every other developed country suggests that more government control over health care prices succeeds in keeping the costs down.
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  9. #49
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    Re: "Obamacare" or UHC?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I'm beginning to think that we should just have a "libertarian opt-out" for everything. Better yet why don't we set aside a parcel of land so that the libertarians can have their own paradise lol. That would be quite an experiment.
    That experiment has already been hypothesized. It didn't turn out well......


  10. #50
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    Re: "Obamacare" or UHC?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Would you rather have the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (AKA "Obamacare) or have a system of UHC in this country?
    I'm going to have to see how the AHA works before I'll know.

    Personally, I don't understand why the government didn't simply envelope everyone into Medicare and call it a day.
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