View Poll Results: Would You Rather Have Obamacare or a System of UHC?

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  • "Obamacare"

    8 14.81%
  • Universal Health Care

    46 85.19%
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Thread: "Obamacare" or UHC?

  1. #201
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    Re: "Obamacare" or UHC?

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    I haven't seen one yet that comes even close to being able to provide what one can receive by paying for it individually.
    And by "receive", I am speaking not only about quality, but the actual service performed also.
    Just because others can not afford it, matters not, because they aren't going to receive that level of care under any UHC program unless they have been elected or appointed to a high position in Government.
    You haven't been looking too closely if you haven't seen other health care systems that work as well as or better than ours at a much lower cost.

    I think you could also find examples of superior health care for the elite and wealthy in some parts of the world as well, yes. Is that really what we want here?
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    Re: "Obamacare" or UHC?

    Quote Originally Posted by zgoldsmith23 View Post
    How do you screw up a Third World country? They're already screwed up. Nice try.
    You do it by trying to "help" the poor. They would end up destroying the few people who have the ability to earn a lot of money by trying to take it all away. The result would be worse than their feel-good goals. After they succeed in failing, the citizens will dust off their AK's and deal with the situation.
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  3. #203
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    Re: "Obamacare" or UHC?

    If we did eventually get UHC, and the government were paying for it*, would the government also enact tort reform? At least regarding health care and itself, I mean. They like to exempt themselves from liability whenever possible.

    *- I know, I know, it'd be the taxpayers, buy please play along for the sake of discussion.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
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  4. #204
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    Re: "Obamacare" or UHC?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    You haven't been looking too closely if you haven't seen other health care systems that work as well as or better than ours at a much lower cost.
    Not on an individual basis.
    As they say, you get what you pay for.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    I think you could also find examples of superior health care for the elite and wealthy in some parts of the world as well, yes.
    Of course you can. If they pay for the care they receive... so what? It is as it should be.
    If instead they are getting free but superior care in a UHC system, whether they are rich or just privileged, it just demonstrates the inherit unfairness in such a system.



    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Is that really what we want here?
    We want not to be forced to pay for someone else's care. That is unfair to an extreme.
    They should provided for themselves.
    And if they can't. They don't get it.

  5. #205
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    Re: "Obamacare" or UHC?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    If we did eventually get UHC, and the government were paying for it*, would the government also enact tort reform? At least regarding health care and itself, I mean. They like to exempt themselves from liability whenever possible.
    A majority of states has already enacted some version of tort reform. It hasn't reduced malpractice premiums and it hasn't lowered health care costs. It has helped protect those at fault from being held accountable for very serious injuries done often enough through simple recklessness to other and unsuspecting persons.

    Once upon a time, the federal goverment was immune from many liability claims under concepts of soveriegn immunity that date back to well before Europeans began to build colonies here. That would all have been prior to the Federal Tort Claims Act of 1948. Over all or most of your lifetime then, private parties have been able to sue the United States in federal court for most torts committed by persons acting on its behalf.
    Last edited by Cardinal Fang; 07-21-12 at 12:43 PM.

  6. #206
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    Re: "Obamacare" or UHC?

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Not on an individual basis. As they say, you get what you pay for.
    Health care is inherently provided on an individual basis. In the US, we DO NOT get what we pay for. We pay a lot and end up with crappy care. Not much of a bargain, is it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Of course you can. If they pay for the care they receive... so what? It is as it should be. If instead they are getting free but superior care in a UHC system, whether they are rich or just privileged, it just demonstrates the inherit unfairness in such a system.
    LOL! Health care is not free in any system.

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    We want not to be forced to pay for someone else's care. That is unfair to an extreme. They should provided for themselves. And if they can't. They don't get it.
    How do you feel about the military protecting you? How about the diplomatic corps representing you? Or the National Weather Service giving you all those free weather reports like that? Better if it were tightly rationed so that only rich people could afford to know what the weather was going to be?

  7. #207
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    Re: "Obamacare" or UHC?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I'm beginning to think that we should just have a "libertarian opt-out" for everything. Better yet why don't we set aside a parcel of land so that the libertarians can have their own paradise lol. That would be quite an experiment.
    I would move in a heartbeat.
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  8. #208
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    Re: "Obamacare" or UHC?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    You do it by trying to "help" the poor. They would end up destroying the few people who have the ability to earn a lot of money by trying to take it all away. The result would be worse than their feel-good goals. After they succeed in failing, the citizens will dust off their AK's and deal with the situation.
    Then it wouldn't be any worse.
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  9. #209
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    Re: "Obamacare" or UHC?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I'm beginning to think that we should just have a "libertarian opt-out" for everything. Better yet why don't we set aside a parcel of land so that the libertarians can have their own paradise lol. That would be quite an experiment.
    I would love to be on that parcel of land so I could see people's faces when the realization sets in that most people who claim to be liberty-loving are really just selfish opportunists disguised as liberty lovers. It will always be the latter that will thwart any real attempt at such a society.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

  10. #210
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    Re: "Obamacare" or UHC?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    I would love to be on that parcel of land so I could see people's faces when the realization sets in that most people who claim to be liberty-loving are really just selfish opportunists disguised as liberty lovers. It will always be the latter that will thwart any real attempt at such a society.
    Right... because not wanting to be compelled to do things must mean that given the opportunity you would not do things on your own.
    “Tyranny is defined as that which is legal for the government but illegal for the citizenry.”
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