View Poll Results: Would You Rather Have Obamacare or a System of UHC?

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  • "Obamacare"

    8 14.81%
  • Universal Health Care

    46 85.19%
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Thread: "Obamacare" or UHC?

  1. #121
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    Re: "Obamacare" or UHC?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Precisely why it's time to privatize the military.
    Invalid comparison, since the US Military is, and always has been an integral component of the US Government via the US Constitution.
    I love the NSA. It's like having a secret fan-base you will never see, but they're there, watching everything you write and it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that I may be some person's only form of unconstitutional entertainment one night.

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    Re: "Obamacare" or UHC?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I'm beginning to think that we should just have a "libertarian opt-out" for everything. Better yet why don't we set aside a parcel of land so that the libertarians can have their own paradise lol. That would be quite an experiment.
    I'd rather see the liberals shipped off to some third world country so they can screw THEM up instead of screwing up successful first world countries.
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  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    I'd rather see the liberals shipped off to some third world country so they can screw THEM up instead of screwing up successful first world countries.
    How do you screw up a Third World country? They're already screwed up. Nice try.
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  4. #124
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    Re: "Obamacare" or UHC?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    So the mandate, which you call a conservative idea, is something that both you and President Obama supported. Fair enough.
    It was the congressional compromise to go with the conservative's insurance mandate, which was created by the Heritage Foundation as an alternative to UHC.

    But... no, it isn't better than what we had. No law that forces us to keep forking it over to a private corporation as a response to feeling ripped off by said corporation is... a retarded idea.
    It provides health care coverage to all. That far outweighs your objections to people who can afford it having to pay for their own health care as far as I am concerned.



    There is no way for it to serve us better until the costs of care are cheaper. Do you agree the "Affordable CARE Act" is an intentional misnomer/deception? If not, explain what forces the costs of care cheaper under PPACA. It doesn't look like anyone has been able to do that.
    Its affordable because those that cannot afford it will receive assistance in paying it.



    None of whom have any financial stake in the decision though, at that point, right? Couldn't a stubborn patient demand more and more life-saving hail marys at the expense of the collective? Or is that something that we shouldn't allow? It's really just one example of health care we probably should NOT be covering.
    I have not read about that having been a problem in all the rest of the industrialized world that has already upgraded to UHC.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  5. #125
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    Re: "Obamacare" or UHC?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Will we? I've been expecting it for years. Back when the cost of health insurance went up 30-40% a year, I thought, oh, well, we'll soon join the civilized world. When Hillary Clinton spearheaded the effort back in the '90s, I thought it was only a matter of time.

    Now, with health care consuming 17% of the GDP while other nations spend half that, give or take, and have better results, we're still committed to keeping what we have in the name of ideology and fear of "socialism".
    Social evolution does not happen quickly my friend. You can see the same phenomenon with our spending on the military and optional wars. Eventually, we will have no financial choice but to upgrade to UHC and stop spending as much as the rest of the world combined on the military.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  6. #126
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    Re: "Obamacare" or UHC?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post


    Kidding me right? Who will these private companies call to? Who will they answer to? Did Backwater already not prove that **** storm that comes out of privatized military contracts?
    He's being sarcastic. At least I think he is.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
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  7. #127
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    Re: "Obamacare" or UHC?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    I'd rather see the liberals shipped off to some third world country so they can screw THEM up instead of screwing up successful first world countries.
    Right. Liberals screw up everything, whenever conservatives are in charge things are always fine and dandy. Partisan hackery at its very finest.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    It provides health care coverage to all. That far outweighs your objections to people who can afford it having to pay for their own health care as far as I am concerned.
    Not just their own. Their own plus everyone else's who can't. And that is something no one can afford.

    I've said it countless times, the problem is not that people didn't have access to health care, or even forms of insurance. The problem was the cost of the underlying services and our over-coverage of already-overpriced care. And that problem has been made worse.

    Its affordable because those that cannot afford it will receive assistance in paying it.
    That's a politically correct way to dodge the fact that the needs of each are being billed according to the means of each. It is a purely communistic tenet, and it leaves no incentive for anyone in the game to be cost-conscious.

    I have not read about that having been a problem in all the rest of the industrialized world that has already upgraded to UHC.
    That's because their care was always less expensive. Their UHC systems didn't make it that way. It already was.

  9. #129
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    Re: "Obamacare" or UHC?

    Why are there only 2 options?

    What about those of us who are opposed to RomneyCare/ObamaCare and UHC?

  10. #130
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    Re: "Obamacare" or UHC?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Not just their own. Their own plus everyone else's who can't. And that is something no one can afford.
    It will be less than we were paying before for increased hospital costs since more people will have health insurance.

    I've said it countless times, the problem is not that people didn't have access to health care, or even forms of insurance. The problem was the cost of the underlying services and our over-coverage of already-overpriced care. And that problem has been made worse.
    The only way to address the underlying cost will be to upgrade to UHC as the rest of the industrialized world has done. But this is America, and we are only capable of baby steps, apparently.



    That's a politically correct way to dodge the fact that the needs of each are being billed according to the means of each. It is a purely communistic tenet, and it leaves no incentive for anyone in the game to be cost-conscious.
    That is how you see it from the far right. I see it as upholding the intent of the Constitution to promote the welfare of we the people.



    That's because their care was always less expensive. Their UHC systems didn't make it that way. It already was.
    Our medical care is almost twice as expensive as every other industrialized country but our health ratings for all citizens are not as good. That together with health care being the leading cause of bankruptcy in this country, will leave us no alternative but to eventually upgrade to UHC.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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