View Poll Results: What minor party has the best chance to become a major party?

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  • The Libertarian Party

    51 61.45%
  • The Green Party

    13 15.66%
  • The Constitution Party

    3 3.61%
  • The Justice Party

    1 1.20%
  • Other (please specify)

    15 18.07%
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Thread: What minor party has the best chance to become a major party?

  1. #31
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    Re: What minor party has the best chance to become a major party?

    Quote Originally Posted by Smart View Post
    In your opinion, what minor party has the best chance of becoming a major party nationwide or in at least three states?

    I believe that honor belongs to the Libertarian Party, largely because the Justice and Green parties haven't been very successful in recruiting Democrats to their parties.
    Although I doubt any party really stands a chance of becoming a major third party, but of those the Libertarians probably have the best shot. I've always thought the best chance of having a real third party would be if a couple of high profile politicians, (reps, senators, or governors), broke off and formed their own party. But in today's "toe the party line" system I think there's little chance of that happening either.
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    Re: What minor party has the best chance to become a major party?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    I'm an ex-cop and I could care less if you legalize weed and cocaine, as long as the entire production chain is "brought into the light" to undercut the cartels and gangs.
    A lot of police feel that way now. Well the ones I personally know.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Crack and meth are just too damn toxic... no legal corp could produce and sell it, they'd have liability out the wazoo.
    Someone will produce it, doesn't have to be a corporation. When someone OD's on scrips what happens? Anyway this is where personal responsibility should kick in.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Heroin is terribly addictive and can get debilitating for heavy users. LSD is a crap shoot as to whether you have a pleasant trip or burn out your brain like my cousin.
    Never did horse, euuuwww... Don't know people that do it, actally the only person I knew on it OD'd. LSD, yea you can get a bad dose, that's just another reason for legalization, quality goes up. Most of the bad doses I've heard of just involved horrible back aches. I have heard of one brain fry, this was from my roomate, he was a Deadhead(grateful dead follower) though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    And then there's BATH SALTS.... you know, the one people keep having violent psychotic breaks on, as bad or worse than PCP...
    Bath salts are a joke, those guys were already loco! One of the guys already made a death threat to his mother. No comment on PCP, I know not one soul that touched that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    And this typifies the problem with "absolutely no compromise Libertarians"..... Politics IS the "art of compromise". Without compromise you are left with dictatorship.
    Politics = bad

    Dictatorships do indeed dictate, through force if I'm not mistaken, right? Libertarians are against the use of force to a large extent. Only time force should be used is in the defense of ones life, liberty, and/or property.

    The other parties have no problem with the use of force.

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    Re: What minor party has the best chance to become a major party?

    It seems to me that it would be best to allow the really bad, addictive drugs such as meth and heroin to be available in an institutional setting under medical supervision.
    That way, the addicts wouldn't be on the street and could have access to help getting over their addiction and back to a more normal life.

    As it is, they live in the shadows, afraid of arrest, living hand to mouth with nothing to look forward to but the next "fix," until all too often they overdose, get some bad "stuff", or die of their disease.

    Yes, disease. Isn't addiction a disease? Why not treat it as such? Wouldn't that be more effective than treating it as a legal problem rather than a medical one?
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  4. #34
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    Re: What minor party has the best chance to become a major party?

    Given social attitudes of the younger generation. I am guessing in the next 10 or 15 years, the current libertarian party is going turn into the future republican party, with the old guard dying off as they are the core of the tea party and tend to be 55 or older, looking at some older polls from around last summer, if memory serves me right.

    I am not sure if that satisfies the requirements of the OP in terms of a minor party becoming a major party, but its how it tends to happen in this country.

  5. #35
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    Re: What minor party has the best chance to become a major party?

    Quote Originally Posted by Smart View Post
    Most people wouldn't do meth, heroin or bath salts if marijuana and cocaine were legal. I'm not saying heroin should be widely available, I'm just saying for a very high price people should be able to use it if they wish. If they become addicted, and want to receive treatment, then we will have treatment/rehab centers specifically catering to heroin addicts. Otherwise, let them die. It's their life, to enjoy or destroy.

    Compromise is not a good idea. I don't want anyone to compromise. I abhor neo-liberalism, but I don't want them to compromise with me. I want a full conversion or no conversion at all.

    Let's face it, if we had 20 LP Congressmen who could keep the R's and D's in check, Washington would work a lot better.

    _____

    I support drug education programs in the schools, just like sex education. It's important people know the effects of drugs in a non-biased manner. Just the facts. Don't even tell the children they shouldn't do them. Just get to them before the drug dealer does.

    I would never do drugs, nor would anyone I know. (or at least, that's what they say now)

    However, it is my firm belief that my opposition to something does not equal good legal policy. I'm not the one writing the laws. Crimes need a victim. Charlie Sheen is not a victim.
    It is true that crack was a reaction to a rise in cocaine prices, partly due to law enforcement efforts to cut into the trade. Meth was a reaction to gov't making crack ingredients difficult to obtain. Yes, some people would do cocaine instead if it were legal and reasonably cheap. But not all.

    Legalizing weed and plain coke, I'm okay with. Heroin, LSD and peyote I'm not sure about. Crack and Meth are too toxic to be produced and sold legally, no legit company would touch the stuff in today's litigation climate.

    The problem here with no-compromise Libertarianism is that only about 2% of the population wants to live under that system. If you refuse to compromise what will you do with the 98% who disagree? There's your problem, and there's the reason the LP almost never wins an election, as much as the structurally-imbedded two-party preference.

    Libertarian Lite COULD win elections... start off with just legalizing weed, removing unConstitutional restrictions on the right to bear arms and self-defense, and trimming the Social Welfare state down to a more modest "safety net" that is focused on "giving a hand UP" instead of a "hand-out". Do this instead of trying to legalize EVERYTHING all at once, and instead of trying to end ALL social welfare INSTANTLY, and you might get some traction.

    Focus on minimizing our involvement in foreign wars rather than foreswearing all military action unless we're actually invaded, and people will see that as a more reasonable and desireable position.


    Spend more time focused on restoring the liberties people are most interested in, and minimizing the bureaucracy nobody likes, and more middle-of-the-road positions on most other things.... extreme positions and calls for instant and catastrophic change tend to scare people off.

    You may, over time, be able to get where you want to go (more or less) by incrementalism, but when Libertarians take an "ALL or nothing, NOW or never" attitude they turn off the majority of voters.

    There are only two ways to have everything YOUR way with ZERO compromise...
    1. Total dictatorship (a total contradiction to all Libertarianism stands for)

    Or

    2. Almost everyone agrees with LP on effectively everything (never happen... you can scarcely get 2/3rds to agree on ANYTHING, let alone 90%+ on EVERYTHING).



    Any democratically based system, by necessity, operates on compromise.

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    Re: What minor party has the best chance to become a major party?

    None...it won't happen in this century.

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    Re: What minor party has the best chance to become a major party?

    There will be NO parties before a third party becomes major,

    The problem is the parties are currently WAY to polarized and partisan and to polluted with hacks but even with that said no other party even has a fighting change because they also have hacks and unfortunately the hacks are usually the loudest and get the most press,

    SO there will be no parties ?(only meaning there wont be such stupid strict partisan guidelines to be in a party) or the current parties will have to kick out the hacks.
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    Re: What minor party has the best chance to become a major party?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Legalizing weed and plain coke, I'm okay with. Heroin, LSD and peyote I'm not sure about. Crack and Meth are too toxic to be produced and sold legally, no legit company would touch the stuff in today's litigation climate.
    I used to argue that weed and mushrooms and such should be legal but perhaps other drugs should not. Recently I reevaluated that and now I say all drugs should be "legal", but all are subject to FDA approval and regulation.
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    Re: What minor party has the best chance to become a major party?

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective-J View Post
    There will be NO parties before a third party becomes major,

    The problem is the parties are currently WAY to polarized and partisan and to polluted with hacks but even with that said no other party even has a fighting change because they also have hacks and unfortunately the hacks are usually the loudest and get the most press,

    SO there will be no parties ?(only meaning there wont be such stupid strict partisan guidelines to be in a party) or the current parties will have to kick out the hacks.

    Word on the street is that the GOP in California is becoming a 3rd Party.

  10. #40
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    Re: What minor party has the best chance to become a major party?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    It is true that crack was a reaction to a rise in cocaine prices, partly due to law enforcement efforts to cut into the trade. Meth was a reaction to gov't making crack ingredients difficult to obtain. Yes, some people would do cocaine instead if it were legal and reasonably cheap. But not all.

    Legalizing weed and plain coke, I'm okay with. Heroin, LSD and peyote I'm not sure about. Crack and Meth are too toxic to be produced and sold legally, no legit company would touch the stuff in today's litigation climate.

    The problem here with no-compromise Libertarianism is that only about 2% of the population wants to live under that system. If you refuse to compromise what will you do with the 98% who disagree? There's your problem, and there's the reason the LP almost never wins an election, as much as the structurally-imbedded two-party preference.

    Libertarian Lite COULD win elections... start off with just legalizing weed, removing unConstitutional restrictions on the right to bear arms and self-defense, and trimming the Social Welfare state down to a more modest "safety net" that is focused on "giving a hand UP" instead of a "hand-out". Do this instead of trying to legalize EVERYTHING all at once, and instead of trying to end ALL social welfare INSTANTLY, and you might get some traction.

    Focus on minimizing our involvement in foreign wars rather than foreswearing all military action unless we're actually invaded, and people will see that as a more reasonable and desireable position.


    Spend more time focused on restoring the liberties people are most interested in, and minimizing the bureaucracy nobody likes, and more middle-of-the-road positions on most other things.... extreme positions and calls for instant and catastrophic change tend to scare people off.

    You may, over time, be able to get where you want to go (more or less) by incrementalism, but when Libertarians take an "ALL or nothing, NOW or never" attitude they turn off the majority of voters.

    There are only two ways to have everything YOUR way with ZERO compromise...
    1. Total dictatorship (a total contradiction to all Libertarianism stands for)

    Or

    2. Almost everyone agrees with LP on effectively everything (never happen... you can scarcely get 2/3rds to agree on ANYTHING, let alone 90%+ on EVERYTHING).



    Any democratically based system, by necessity, operates on compromise.
    Exactly.

    What is needed is not a wholesale move toward the libertarian philosophy, but a move in that direction.
    The same can be said for the adamant liberals and conservatives, or those who call themselves that, and aren't willing to compromise and come up with practical solutions to national problems.

    We even have a polarization and lack of willingness to compromise between the Republicans and Democrats, despite all of their similarities. That sort of polarization, lack of willingness to compromise, lack of interest in pragmatic solutions to problems is hamstringing Congress currently.
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