View Poll Results: What is (are) the best way(s) to eliminate the deficit?

Voters
97. You may not vote on this poll
  • A balanced budget amendment

    24 24.74%
  • A line item veto amenndment

    17 17.53%
  • replace income tx with a national retail sales tax

    10 10.31%
  • Raise taxes on the rich

    40 41.24%
  • Raise taxes on the middle-class

    7 7.22%
  • Raise taxes stealthily in the form of fees, a federal lottery, etc.

    4 4.12%
  • Nationalize oil and natural gas on federal land and get into the enegry business like Saudi Arabia

    11 11.34%
  • Cut federal spending

    66 68.04%
  • Sell services to prizate industry at a profit, privatize then tax them

    4 4.12%
  • other

    26 26.80%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: What's the best way to reduce the deficit?

  1. #61
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    Re: What's the best way to reduce the deficit?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheLastIndependent View Post
    That probably would've been better

    In all seriousness, it does not propose many of the core components of Communism, it merely suggests the reasons. It's actually really interesting to read and makes a lot of sense (even though Communism could never work)


    That is the problem with Paradise. It's not a place designed for us.

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    Re: What's the best way to reduce the deficit?

    Quote Originally Posted by code1211 View Post
    That is the problem with Paradise. It's not a place designed for us.
    Anything utopian in nature will be a failure because it requires perfection to carry out perfection. People are flawed
    "The trust of the innocent is the liar's most useful tool." : Stephen King

    "Commerce with all nations, alliance with none, should be our motto." Thomas Jefferson

  3. #63
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    Re: What's the best way to reduce the deficit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    Competition makes cheap Chinese products that break the first time you use them.
    Sorry you don't like what's going on in China. Why do you liberal Democrats refuse to compete with the Chinese? We could keep jobs in America if the blue collar workers would accept 30 to 40 percent pay cuts.

  4. #64
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    Re: What's the best way to reduce the deficit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Smeagol, in the OP View Post
    I would support the Tea Party a lot more if they pushed for a constitutional amendment for replacing the income tax with a national retail sales tax and giving the POTUS the line item veto as opposed to their drive for a balanced budget amendment.

    What do you think are the best ways to eliminate the deficit?
    A national sales tax is a) regressive (disproportionately hurts the lower incomes), and b) detrimental to GDP.

    A line item veto is counterintuitive with respect to the Constitution (i.e., it crosses the separation of powers line).

    The short answer to the question in your thread title is to get the economy back on track (revenues will increase as a result). However, there are other fundamental issues that need to be addressed regardless:

    1. Gov't revenue as a percentage of GDP, currently horribly too low (about 15%), seems to be low historically (say, 20%) compared to other 'first world' countries. This needs to be looked at. Perhaps once state and local taxes are factored in, the resultant 'national' tax rate is more in line with other prosperous countries. I doubt it, but I haven't looked at combined figures.

    2. Given a studious effort, government efficiency might be increased by roughly 10%, but this is pretty much peanuts ($350 billion). You could -- and should -- cut the defense budget in half and save more than that ($400 billion).

    3. Entitlements, welfare, social security, it all is what it is. You can't cut it without damaging the economy, and you should not cut it regardless. Again, an increase in efficiencies might help, but it would be peanuts. You could do some workfare if it made you feel better, but it wouldn't impact expenditures to any great extent.

    4. Gov't revenue needs to go way up, as noted in #1. I think the transaction tax on Wall Street should be implemented.... as it stands now, I can buy and sell a billion dollars of stock a day and not pay a dime in sales tax (actually I buy and sell a bit less than that, and not every day ). Total annual dollar volume on the NYSE and NASDAQ combined is roughly $17 trillion... a 6% federal 'sales' tax on that would reap $1 trillion in annual revenue. That, plus halving the Defense budget, would pretty much balance the budget right there (although the defense cuts would have to be made delicately to avoid GDP impact).

    5. Foreign aid and such is peanuts (what, $80 billion?). Plus, like most rich people, we generally have to buy our friends. Although all the war crap needs to stop immediately, as slashing the Defense budget (above) would require.

    6. Something could be done to lessen the trade deficit (currently about $600 billion/yr), but you have to tread cautiously here to avoid pissing off countries that buy our stuff. A lot could be done to keep U.S. companies from outsourcing so much... that would probably erase the trade deficit right there while boosting domestic GDP and well as gov't revenues (more jobs).

    7. Legalizing drugs, as others mentioned, would have positive impact throughout the economy -- new taxes, decreased spending on interdiction, decreased spending on incarceration, decrease in crime overall throughout the country). Not an economy-saver, but a great weight off the nation's shoulders. Such a common sense win-win that only a straightjacketed conservative could resist. However, I'm sure that all DP Libertarians are in favor of it . . . . . .

  5. #65
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    Re: What's the best way to reduce the deficit?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnny_rebson View Post
    Sorry you don't like what's going on in China. Why do you liberal Democrats refuse to compete with the Chinese? We could keep jobs in America if the blue collar workers would accept 30 to 40 percent pay cuts.
    If you want to work for 30 or 40 percent less pay, why not move to China? They don't have any unions over there, nor any EPA, nor any OSHA, I'm sure you'd just love it

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    Re: What's the best way to reduce the deficit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Smeagol View Post
    I would support the Tea Party a lot more if they pushed for a constitutional amendment for replacing the income tax with a national retail sales tax and giving the POTUS the line item veto as opposed to their drive for a balanced budget amendment.

    What do you think are the best ways to eliminate the deficit?
    only appoint judges who will enforce the Tenth Amendment's limitations on the federal government is the best solution

    the second solution is to get rid of income tax withholding and make people write a check the day before the elections and that the tax be the same amount for everyone. Once the middle class realizes it has to pay for what it uses, the government spending will take a serious beat down

  7. #67
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    Re: What's the best way to reduce the deficit?

    Quote Originally Posted by code1211 View Post
    No. Competition makes a man run a mile in less the 4 minutes. It creates and/or brings to prominence a guy like Michael Phelps. It displaces a car like the Plymouth Fury III in favor of the Honda Accord.

    Without competition, the consumer is provided with a tunnel visioned result of a closed system. With Competition, the consumer is provided with the cooperative result of the best and the brightest vying to be the best.

    Competition is what has given us Microsoft and Apple, Ford and Toyota and Letterman and Leno.

    Competition is results where talent, work, inspiration and drive meet to address need.
    I didn't say competition was bad. I was pointing out that it has warts and should not be accorded God-like status, as conservatives are wont to do.

    Crass capitalism gave us Microsoft -- Bill Gates stole MS-DOS from someone less financially inclined. And after tweaking it for 40-odd years, Windows still sucks and is worse than the original product (QDOS).

    The Plymouth Fury III was available with the 426 Hemi V-8. I'll take one of those over a Honda Accord, and see you in my rear view mirror, thank you very much

  8. #68
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    Re: What's the best way to reduce the deficit?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnny_rebson View Post
    Sorry you don't like what's going on in China. Why do you liberal Democrats refuse to compete with the Chinese? We could keep jobs in America if the blue collar workers would accept 30 to 40 percent pay cuts.


    That's an uninspired view. The best way to lose a fight is to give up.

    The productivity in business is not measured in widgets per hour, but in widgets per dollar. We don't need to decrease what we pay workers if we can figure out how to make our workers' work count for more.

    In the case of the auto industry, we were once able to out automate the competition. Now the competition is as automated as we are. Only at this point do we ask, "If their guys are doing exactly the same hi-tech work as our guys and doing it, but at half the wage rate, are we overpaying?"

    The better way to compete is the way Apple does. Better products and better ideas.

  9. #69
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    Re: What's the best way to reduce the deficit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    A national sales tax is a) regressive (disproportionately hurts the lower incomes), and b) detrimental to GDP.

    A line item veto is counterintuitive with respect to the Constitution (i.e., it crosses the separation of powers line).

    The short answer to the question in your thread title is to get the economy back on track (revenues will increase as a result). However, there are other fundamental issues that need to be addressed regardless:

    1. Gov't revenue as a percentage of GDP, currently horribly too low (about 15%), seems to be low historically (say, 20%) compared to other 'first world' countries. This needs to be looked at. Perhaps once state and local taxes are factored in, the resultant 'national' tax rate is more in line with other prosperous countries. I doubt it, but I haven't looked at combined figures.

    2. Given a studious effort, government efficiency might be increased by roughly 10%, but this is pretty much peanuts ($350 billion). You could -- and should -- cut the defense budget in half and save more than that ($400 billion).

    3. Entitlements, welfare, social security, it all is what it is. You can't cut it without damaging the economy, and you should not cut it regardless. Again, an increase in efficiencies might help, but it would be peanuts. You could do some workfare if it made you feel better, but it wouldn't impact expenditures to any great extent.

    4. Gov't revenue needs to go way up, as noted in #1. I think the transaction tax on Wall Street should be implemented.... as it stands now, I can buy and sell a billion dollars of stock a day and not pay a dime in sales tax (actually I buy and sell a bit less than that, and not every day ). Total annual dollar volume on the NYSE and NASDAQ combined is roughly $17 trillion... a 6% federal 'sales' tax on that would reap $1 trillion in annual revenue. That, plus halving the Defense budget, would pretty much balance the budget right there (although the defense cuts would have to be made delicately to avoid GDP impact).

    5. Foreign aid and such is peanuts (what, $80 billion?). Plus, like most rich people, we generally have to buy our friends. Although all the war crap needs to stop immediately, as slashing the Defense budget (above) would require.

    6. Something could be done to lessen the trade deficit (currently about $600 billion/yr), but you have to tread cautiously here to avoid pissing off countries that buy our stuff. A lot could be done to keep U.S. companies from outsourcing so much... that would probably erase the trade deficit right there while boosting domestic GDP and well as gov't revenues (more jobs).

    7. Legalizing drugs, as others mentioned, would have positive impact throughout the economy -- new taxes, decreased spending on interdiction, decreased spending on incarceration, decrease in crime overall throughout the country). Not an economy-saver, but a great weight off the nation's shoulders. Such a common sense win-win that only a straightjacketed conservative could resist. However, I'm sure that all DP Libertarians are in favor of it . . . . . .



    Every time you tamper with something, you change it. The government imposed a luxury tax which included Yaught builders and the taught builders went out of business as the taught buyers got their boats from Canadian builders.

    If I was elected President tomorrow, I would immediately reduce spending in all departments and programs to the levels they received in 2008. If the program or department didn't exist in 2008, it would cease to exist today.

    I don't know where you live. Between the Fed income tax, the state income tax, the property tax and all of the sales and use taxes, I am well over 20% of my income.

    "Entitlements, welfare and social security..." Entitlements and Welfare may be needed but are not on the same page as Social Security which is a social contract. Over the course of my career, i've probably paid in the equivalent of about a quarter million dollars. If I had been allowed to contribute this to a 401K type investment, I'd have about 2 or 3 million right now.

    Whether it is as a nation or as an individual, the way to reduce debt is to reduce spending to less than income and pay off the debt with the excess. Loaves and fishes have nothing to do with it.

  10. #70
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    Re: What's the best way to reduce the deficit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    I didn't say competition was bad. I was pointing out that it has warts and should not be accorded God-like status, as conservatives are wont to do.

    Crass capitalism gave us Microsoft -- Bill Gates stole MS-DOS from someone less financially inclined. And after tweaking it for 40-odd years, Windows still sucks and is worse than the original product (QDOS).

    The Plymouth Fury III was available with the 426 Hemi V-8. I'll take one of those over a Honda Accord, and see you in my rear view mirror, thank you very much


    Check for me in your windshield. I drive a 300C with a Hemi. It's a flex fuel vehicle: Burns rubber and gas. If I put the pedal on the floor, that thing will travel through time.

    By the by, I had a Fury III and it was an okay car, but the design was a tad sloppy and the fit and finish was wanting. Still, it had power to spare. Had to. It was as big as a motor home.
    Last edited by code1211; 07-14-12 at 08:33 AM.

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