View Poll Results: What is (are) the best way(s) to eliminate the deficit?

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  • A balanced budget amendment

    24 24.74%
  • A line item veto amenndment

    17 17.53%
  • replace income tx with a national retail sales tax

    10 10.31%
  • Raise taxes on the rich

    40 41.24%
  • Raise taxes on the middle-class

    7 7.22%
  • Raise taxes stealthily in the form of fees, a federal lottery, etc.

    4 4.12%
  • Nationalize oil and natural gas on federal land and get into the enegry business like Saudi Arabia

    11 11.34%
  • Cut federal spending

    66 68.04%
  • Sell services to prizate industry at a profit, privatize then tax them

    4 4.12%
  • other

    26 26.80%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: What's the best way to reduce the deficit?

  1. #201
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    Re: What's the best way to reduce the deficit?

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    Very true. There will always be a need for the military and I believe we should keep as well equiped as we can. I also believe it is well worth the cost of overseas bases so that if attacked we fight on someone elses territory instead of in our own country.

    One of the biggest costs in getting updated and new systems is Congress. A good example of this is the Air Forces new F-22 Fighter, role, Air-Superiority/intercepter. Developement for it was started in the 1980s and due to congressional funding issues and other issues it has taken more than 20 years to actually get it into service and even then, at current acquistion rates, it will never actually fully replace the F-15, which first entered service in 1972, and has cost us Billions more than it should. Congress votes on each major system independent of the Defence Budget. As a result of this process, it was neccessary to get a majority of Representatives and Senators to vote for it everytime funding came up. To win the votes neccessary, the contractors had to create jobs in congressional districts, thus it has no real centralized production, parts of it are spread out pretty much through all 50 States. As you can imagine, this greatly increases the cost for the system as you have far more facilities and management personnel than needed. At a rough guesstimate, the system now cost over twice what it would if congress had simply given the Air Force an annual budget for research, development and acquisition and allowed it and the contractors to centralize development and production.

    Another fine example of Congress messing with military contracts, the C-130J. The Air Force did not request a new C-130 model. While it did need some new airframes because some were getting very old, they would of been just as happy, probably happier, with the previous C-130H-3 models. The C-130H models cost approximately $40 million each, the C-130J models $80 million each. Congress forced the purchase and delivery of these new Aircraft, even though the service didn't want them.
    Congress isn't always to blame. The greatest example of this is the Bradley. 17 years, and 14 billion dollars wasted on a very confused contraption. Congress was very distant at first, but finally had to step in and tell the military to stop ****ing around. It's quite possibly the reason why Congress is so involved with our major weapons systems now.
    I love the NSA. It's like having a secret fan-base you will never see, but they're there, watching everything you write and it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that I may be some person's only form of unconstitutional entertainment one night.

  2. #202
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    Re: What's the best way to reduce the deficit?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Our military is among the best equipped in the world.
    Which units?

    We outspend the whole world combined.
    This is untrue, though we spend far and away more than the nearest competitor.

    We do not need to spend more money on the ****ing military
    That is correct, we do not. For example, we could dramatically slash military pensions and retiree healthcare, thus saving us oodles of money. It's just that we do not wish to do those things.

    A spending spree for some reason isnt gonna do **** to Iran
    Someone has to develop the kind of high-speed programs and weaponry that we will bring to bear. How much do you think Stuxnet cost to put together, anywho? Do you prefer, or not prefer that it has thus far allowed us to delay actual kinetic strikes?

    We already spend the most in the world, why if we spend more why would Iran all the sudden say "ohh ahhh yep you got us"?
    Because high-speed is high-cost. We could go low-cost, if you like, and just send the B-52's overhead with tons upon tons of older, unguided bombs that we use to pound Tehran and Qom flat. That's the cheaper way.

    Lots of civilians get killed when we fight war on the cheap. Precision strikes with minimum necessary force are difficult and expensive.

  3. #203
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    Re: What's the best way to reduce the deficit?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post


    This is untrue, though we spend far and away more than the nearest competitor.
    Excuse me you are correct. We only spend 48% of the worlds defense spending.


    That is correct, we do not. For example, we could dramatically slash military pensions and retiree healthcare, thus saving us oodles of money. It's just that we do not wish to do those things.
    Or how about **** like this: U.S. Wasting Billions on Over-Priced Service Contracts; Government Lacks Data to Make Informed Contracting Decisions, POGO Tells Congressional Subcommittee
    Panetta Ignoring More than $100 Billion in Potential Defense Savings



    Someone has to develop the kind of high-speed programs and weaponry that we will bring to bear. How much do you think Stuxnet cost to put together, anywho? Do you prefer, or not prefer that it has thus far allowed us to delay actual kinetic strikes?

    Because high-speed is high-cost. We could go low-cost, if you like, and just send the B-52's overhead with tons upon tons of older, unguided bombs that we use to pound Tehran and Qom flat. That's the cheaper way.

    Lots of civilians get killed when we fight war on the cheap. Precision strikes with minimum necessary force are difficult and expensive.
    Im saying that we already outspend Iran by a ****ing **** ton. What makes you think its gonna be different if we continue to spend?


  4. #204
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    Re: What's the best way to reduce the deficit?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Excuse me you are correct. We only spend 48% of the worlds defense spending.
    no, we are 48% of the worlds' open defense spending. we are a smaller portion of the worlds actual defense spending due to under reporting by opaque regimes such as China.

    did you read your own source? this depends upon cuts to healthcare spending on the troops, which is the largest item on the list. and a couple of the items (not upgrading to a 5th Generation fighter, for example) are downright foolishness.

    Im saying that we already outspend Iran by a ****ing **** ton. What makes you think its gonna be different if we continue to spend?
    I think you want the President of the United States to have the ability to avoid massive civilian casualties. The vast majority of our military spending is not centered around countering the threat to Iran. We probably spend more on benefits than we spend on Iran.

  5. #205
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    Re: What's the best way to reduce the deficit?

    Before OPEC, oil cost a dollar a barrel! We and other advanced nations built those oil wells and should take them back. Our deficit was totally caused by price-gouging, which also finances terrorism.
    On the outside, trickling down on the insiders.
    We won't live free until the 1% live in fear.
    Hey, richboys! Imagine the boot of democracy stomping on your faces, forever.

  6. #206
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    Re: What's the best way to reduce the deficit?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    [....] Precision strikes with minimum necessary force are difficult and expensive.
    We don't need any strikes. In fact, a good argument can be made that we don't even need an Air Force, much less an Army. ICBMs, cruise missiles, drones, and rare application of the Navy and/or the Marines are more than we could possibly need to secure the U.S. as well as most of the world.

  7. #207
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    Re: What's the best way to reduce the deficit?

    Quote Originally Posted by PrometheusBound View Post
    Before OPEC, oil cost a dollar a barrel! We and other advanced nations built those oil wells and should take them back. [...]
    And righties can't understand why so many around the world hate the U.S.

  8. #208
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    Re: What's the best way to reduce the deficit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    We don't need any strikes. In fact, a good argument can be made that we don't even need an Air Force, much less an Army. ICBMs, cruise missiles, drones, and rare application of the Navy and/or the Marines are more than we could possibly need to secure the U.S. as well as most of the world.
    Yes, because telling a suicide bomber who is already going to die, who believes that he will recieve 72 virgins in paradise from dying in battle, that we have nukes is really going to change his mind.

  9. #209
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    Re: What's the best way to reduce the deficit?

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    Yes, because telling a suicide bomber who is already going to die, who believes that he will recieve 72 virgins in paradise from dying in battle, that we have nukes is really going to change his mind.
    If you stop invading the suicide bomber's country, he will quit suicide bombing you. That may be a difficult concept for some . . . . . .

  10. #210
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    Re: What's the best way to reduce the deficit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    We don't need any strikes. In fact, a good argument can be made that we don't even need an Air Force, much less an Army. ICBMs, cruise missiles, drones, and rare application of the Navy and/or the Marines are more than we could possibly need to secure the U.S. as well as most of the world.
    interesting. So your preferred response (for example) to finding Osama Bin Laden hiding in Pakistan would have been to nuke Abottobad?

    wow. that's a ballsy play. i gotta admit, I didn't think you had it in you

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