View Poll Results: What is (are) the best way(s) to eliminate the deficit?

Voters
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  • A balanced budget amendment

    24 24.74%
  • A line item veto amenndment

    17 17.53%
  • replace income tx with a national retail sales tax

    10 10.31%
  • Raise taxes on the rich

    40 41.24%
  • Raise taxes on the middle-class

    7 7.22%
  • Raise taxes stealthily in the form of fees, a federal lottery, etc.

    4 4.12%
  • Nationalize oil and natural gas on federal land and get into the enegry business like Saudi Arabia

    11 11.34%
  • Cut federal spending

    66 68.04%
  • Sell services to prizate industry at a profit, privatize then tax them

    4 4.12%
  • other

    26 26.80%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: What's the best way to reduce the deficit?

  1. #141
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    Re: What's the best way to reduce the deficit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    Oooh, sorry, wrong again. That Kool Aid is obviously stale; perhaps you should mix a fresh batch.

    As the chart (courtesy of Karl) below clearly shows, 'business' (corporate) income tax receipts pretty much track personal income tax receipts well before and after your magic 2000 date, other than spiking in the 2005-2008 timeframe.
    ...actually, your chart shows that corporate revenues were pretty much comparatively flat throughout the entire time that individual incomes fluctuated significantly, again, agreeably, with the exception of the 2004-2008/09 period.

  2. #142
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    Re: What's the best way to reduce the deficit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    I think your refusal to acknowledge the Grover Norquist pledge, and your refusal to address sweEt Mauritius' common sense proposal -- "half cuts and half revenue increases" -
    it's not a "common sense" proposal - it's an economically ignorant proposal built around the notion that one can simply order up additional revenues through the measure of increasing nominal tax rates.

    Check with Illinois to see how well that approach is working.

  3. #143
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    Re: What's the best way to reduce the deficit?

    other
    The tea-bagging conservatives are ever harping on this - no, the world is NOT coming to an end.
    But , fair and equaable taxing (Clinton era) can be restored.
    And, we can cease with these overseas adventures (wars).

  4. #144
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    Re: What's the best way to reduce the deficit?

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    other
    The tea-bagging conservatives are ever harping on this - no, the world is NOT coming to an end.
    Do you know what the word "unsustainable" means?

  5. #145
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    Re: What's the best way to reduce the deficit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by code1211 View Post
    [...] I should think it would be a point of shame to be in the group that is freeloading.
    That would be Mitt Romney; if he's only paying capital gains, then he's paying no SS at all.
    and if he never paid in he will not get benefits. If he has made a salary at some point in his life he has paid into the system. Probably more than you and I ever will so you claim is false.
    Spin all you want, he's currently dodging FICA -- which is an insurance program -- and that makes him a freeloader by right wing standards, the same as those that the right is always whining about who make too little to pay federal income tax.

    Now I'm not going to indict him for gaming the system, but I will indict him for supporting the system -- he clearly enjoys paying a smaller percentage of his income as taxes than the average, or at least the slightly above average, Joe. Of course I suppose the rich always feel entitled, but always find it odd that so many of the poor agree.

  6. #146
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    Re: What's the best way to reduce the deficit?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Good point. These graphs and charts ALWAYS list the president not which party controlled the congress, that actually does the budgeting. The president really has very little choice, on budget matters, they may either sign it or veto it.
    So then you agree that the Republican Congress is responsible for the nearly balanced budget during the latter half of the Clinton administration, culminating in a mere $18 billion increase in the total public debt for FY1999[1],

    and that they were also responsible for the increasingly unbalanced budget during the first half of the Bush Jr. administration, culminating in a $574 billion increase in the total public debt for FY2005[2].

    Odd how that happened with Republicans in control of Congress for the whole time, eh?


    1. Government - Historical Debt Outstanding - Annual 1950 - 1999
    2. Government - Historical Debt Outstanding - Annual 2000 - 2010

  7. #147
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    Re: What's the best way to reduce the deficit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    That chart you posted? It completely supports his claim. During the dot com years people were free with their money and invested easily hoping (and often succeeding) to make a big gain. The dot com bubble busted in 2000. People pulled their money back. Revenue to the treasury dropped. [...]
    I suspected that chart may have been too complicated. Oh well -- pictures are as simple as I can make it

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    Interesting, government revenues have surpassed 2000 levels and yet we still have a huge deficit. Spending problems maybe?
    You would expect spending to remain at 2000 levels? Why in the world would you expect that?

    Let's say you have a livestock farm. Over the course of 12 years, your livestock grows and multiplies. Also over the course of that 12 years, your feedgrass grows to replenish itself, but you also have to plant more feedgrass to keep pace with the increased births of livestock. You also need increased barn and corral space, which costs money.

    Around year 8, your area experiences a severe drought. Feedgrass dies. Your livestock looses weight, has fewer births, and you even have a few deaths -- therefore your income is reduced, complicating the feedgrass problem... you can't afford to buy as much new feedgrass acreage as you did in the past. Do you:

    a) figure that you have slightly more feedgrass now than you did in 2000, despite the size of your operation increasing by some 25%, and blame the situation on your livestock multiplying?

    b) slaughter some of your livestock, at a loss, to reduce feedgrass consumption (spending) to available supply?

    c) borrow some money to buy additional feedgrass to keep your livestock alive until the drought passes and feedgrass growth returns to normal?

  8. #148
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    Re: What's the best way to reduce the deficit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    Let's say you have a livestock farm. Over the course of 12 years, your livestock grows and multiplies. Also over the course of that 12 years, your feedgrass grows to replenish itself, but you also have to plant more feedgrass to keep pace with the increased births of livestock. You also need increased barn and corral space, which costs money.

    Around year 8, your area experiences a severe drought. Feedgrass dies. Your livestock looses weight, has fewer births, and you even have a few deaths -- therefore your income is reduced, complicating the feedgrass problem... you can't afford to buy as much new feedgrass acreage as you did in the past. Do you:

    a) figure that you have slightly more feedgrass now than you did in 2000, despite the size of your operation increasing by some 25%, and blame the situation on your livestock multiplying?

    b) slaughter some of your livestock, at a loss, to reduce feedgrass consumption (spending) to available supply?

    c) borrow some money to buy additional feedgrass to keep your livestock alive until the drought passes and feedgrass growth returns to normal?
    Very nicely put!
    Men do what they have to when they want to, Great men do what they have to, even when they don't want to.

  9. #149
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    Re: What's the best way to reduce the deficit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Smeagol View Post
    What do you think are the best ways to eliminate the deficit?
    Stop all our wars and kill all our old people.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  10. #150
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    Re: What's the best way to reduce the deficit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    [...] Interesting, government revenues have surpassed 2000 levels and yet we still have a huge deficit. Spending problems maybe?
    As I suspected, wrong again. In constant (inflation adjusted) dollars,
    FY2000 revenue was $2.3 trillion, or 20.6% of GDP,
    while FY2011 was $2.0 trillion and 2012 is projected
    to come in at $2.1 trillion (15.4% and 15.8% of GDP, respectively). Source: Historical Federal Receipt and Outlay Summary

    The percent of GDP figures are the most illustrative of how revenues have fallen... we are, in effect, still 5.0% behind the curve, or some $750 billion annually (more than half the current deficit).

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