View Poll Results: What is (are) the best way(s) to eliminate the deficit?

Voters
97. You may not vote on this poll
  • A balanced budget amendment

    24 24.74%
  • A line item veto amenndment

    17 17.53%
  • replace income tx with a national retail sales tax

    10 10.31%
  • Raise taxes on the rich

    40 41.24%
  • Raise taxes on the middle-class

    7 7.22%
  • Raise taxes stealthily in the form of fees, a federal lottery, etc.

    4 4.12%
  • Nationalize oil and natural gas on federal land and get into the enegry business like Saudi Arabia

    11 11.34%
  • Cut federal spending

    66 68.04%
  • Sell services to prizate industry at a profit, privatize then tax them

    4 4.12%
  • other

    26 26.80%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: What's the best way to reduce the deficit?

  1. #131
    Sage

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    Re: What's the best way to reduce the deficit?

    Quote Originally Posted by sweEt Mauritius View Post
    Like Karl said, there will be no deal because Republicans are not interested in reducing the deficit, period. If they were, they would agree to a balanced, commonsense solution of half cuts and half revenue increases. But they have ruled out ANY tax increases, so it's not happening. Until they decide they're willing to be serious about the issue, nothing will happen.



    I don't see how making new tax regulations unpassable helps anything going into the future. How is a nation supposed to adapt to new stimuli if they can't touch taxes in the future?

    To your other point, this whole notion of reducing rates and expanding people makes no sense. That might work in a country where there is not a staggering level of income inequality. However, we live in a country where 1% of the population controls something like 40% of the nation's wealth, so expanding the base is really not going to do as much as raising taxes on the highest income earners would.



    The talk from early this year was that the Republicans wanted to reduce spending to the levels of 2008 in every department and every position.

    The Democrats said this was DOA.

    This sounds like pretty good place to start to me.

    What do you think might be wrong with this?

  2. #132
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    Re: What's the best way to reduce the deficit?

    Quote Originally Posted by code1211 View Post
    The point is that tax revenues increased so dramatically because the business base was so stoked. After 1/1/00, the bottom fell out of the boom economy and the tax revenues immediately started to fall. [....]
    Oooh, sorry, wrong again. That Kool Aid is obviously stale; perhaps you should mix a fresh batch.

    As the chart (courtesy of Karl) below clearly shows, 'business' (corporate) income tax receipts pretty much track personal income tax receipts well before and after your magic 2000 date, other than spiking in the 2005-2008 timeframe.


  3. #133
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    Re: What's the best way to reduce the deficit?

    Quote Originally Posted by sweEt Mauritius View Post
    I'm not talking about businesses, I'm talking about the federal government's budget. It's irrelevant that private businesses had to rework their budgets. It has nothing to do with the fact that Clinton reduced spending and raised taxes. That is exactly the kind of compromise that could begin to meaningfully reduce our deficit, and it's an approach that Democrats have championed and Republicans have stonewalled.
    A few things here.
    1. I think code's point is that if private business' revenues and profit decrease, so do the receipts to the government. In his experience the bottom dropped out in 2000.
    2. The Clinton surplus is a myth. He had a windfall of money but never achieved a surplus year.
    3. In recent history I concur regarding the champion and stonewalling. However in the Clinton years it was the Republican congress (and the dot com boom) that reduced the deficit to a mere 18 billion at it's lowest point
    From the ashes.

  4. #134
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    Re: What's the best way to reduce the deficit?

    Quote Originally Posted by code1211 View Post
    The talk from early this year was that the Republicans wanted to reduce spending to the levels of 2008 in every department and every position. The Democrats said this was DOA. This sounds like pretty good place to start to me. What do you think might be wrong with this?
    I think your refusal to acknowledge the Grover Norquist pledge, and your refusal to address sweEt Mauritius' common sense proposal -- "half cuts and half revenue increases" -- is what is wrong with your argument. In fact that, and your repeated posting of debunked right wing propaganda (which I have in some cases debunked yet again), has led to the total failure of your credibility and therefore your argument.

    Ergo, what you say the Democrats said or did not say, or what the Republicans proposed or did not propose, is simply suspect. Conversely, we know for a fact that 98% of the Republicans in the House and 87% of the Republicans in the Senate signed the totally idiotic Grover Norquist pledge. You are dodging facts, and spouting what may well be propaganda. Not a winning strategy, at least amongst the moderately well-informed/well-reasoned.

  5. #135
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    Re: What's the best way to reduce the deficit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    A few things here. I think code's point is that if private business' revenues and profit decrease, so do the receipts to the government. In his experience the bottom dropped out in 2000.
    His experience and his claim has already been proven wrong. Check the post right above yours.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    The Clinton surplus is a myth. He had a windfall of money but never achieved a surplus year.
    It is close enough for government work. You are arguing semantics (or miniscule details), which is doomed to failure. Clinton left office with the budget in outstanding shape considered what he was left by George Sr.; and then George Jr. -- and a Republican Congress -- promptly trashed it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    However in the Clinton years it was the Republican congress (and the dot com boom) that reduced the deficit to a mere 18 billion at it's lowest point.
    Sure it was. But if the deficit had increased instead of decreased, it would have been Clinton's fault, right?

  6. #136
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    Re: What's the best way to reduce the deficit?

    Quote Originally Posted by code1211 View Post
    [...] I should think it would be a point of shame to be in the group that is freeloading.
    That would be Mitt Romney; if he's only paying capital gains, then he's paying no SS at all.

  7. #137
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    Re: What's the best way to reduce the deficit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    That would be Mitt Romney; if he's only paying capital gains, then he's paying no SS at all.
    and if he never paid in he will not get benefits. If he has made a salary at some point in his life he has paid into the system. Probably more than you and I ever will so you claim is false.
    From the ashes.

  8. #138
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    Re: What's the best way to reduce the deficit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    A few things here.
    1. I think code's point is that if private business' revenues and profit decrease, so do the receipts to the government. In his experience the bottom dropped out in 2000.
    2. The Clinton surplus is a myth. He had a windfall of money but never achieved a surplus year.
    3. In recent history I concur regarding the champion and stonewalling. However in the Clinton years it was the Republican congress (and the dot com boom) that reduced the deficit to a mere 18 billion at it's lowest point
    Good point. These graphs and charts ALWAYS list the president not which party controlled the congress, that actually does the budgeting. The president really has very little choice, on budget matters, they may either sign it or veto it.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  9. #139
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    Re: What's the best way to reduce the deficit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    His experience and his claim has already been proven wrong. Check the post right above yours.
    That chart you posted? It completely supports his claim. During the dot com years people were free with their money and invested easily hoping (and often succeeding) to make a big gain. The dot com bubble busted in 2000. People pulled their money back. Revenue to the treasury dropped. The point being is that without the associated financial "bubble" (dotcoms) we can't recreate the Clinton years. Tax rates are only one part of the equation. Interesting, government revenues have surpassed 2000 levels and yet we still have a huge deficit. Spending problems maybe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    It is close enough for government work. You are arguing semantics (or miniscule details), which is doomed to failure. Clinton left office with the budget in outstanding shape considered what he was left by George Sr.; and then George Jr. -- and a Republican Congress -- promptly trashed it.
    No doubt about that. +1 for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    Sure it was. But if the deficit had increased instead of decreased, it would have been Clinton's fault, right?
    Since it took a government shutdown a hardass named Newt Gingrich to get the budget cuts Clinton takes the credit for, sure I think that is plenty fair.
    From the ashes.

  10. #140
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    Re: What's the best way to reduce the deficit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    That chart you posted? It completely supports his claim. During the dot com years people were free with their money and invested easily hoping (and often succeeding) to make a big gain. The dot com bubble busted in 2000. People pulled their money back. Revenue to the treasury dropped. The point being is that without the associated financial "bubble" (dotcoms) we can't recreate the Clinton years. Tax rates are only one part of the equation. Interesting, government revenues have surpassed 2000 levels and yet we still have a huge deficit. Spending problems maybe?


    No doubt about that. +1 for you.


    Since it took a government shutdown a hardass named Newt Gingrich to get the budget cuts Clinton takes the credit for, sure I think that is plenty fair.

    Your forgetting that since Clinton pushed through nafta millions of jobs have been outsourced and those people out of work are playing no taxs and in some cases recieving govt assistance. As long as the greedsters keep bleeding jobs to china and elsewhere this country is never going to get back in the black. Not only for every job they send is that an american out of work...its an american not paying any taxs and not putting anything back in the economy...the rich corporate interests are cutting their own throat..for a fast buck

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