View Poll Results: What is (are) the best way(s) to eliminate the deficit?

Voters
97. You may not vote on this poll
  • A balanced budget amendment

    24 24.74%
  • A line item veto amenndment

    17 17.53%
  • replace income tx with a national retail sales tax

    10 10.31%
  • Raise taxes on the rich

    40 41.24%
  • Raise taxes on the middle-class

    7 7.22%
  • Raise taxes stealthily in the form of fees, a federal lottery, etc.

    4 4.12%
  • Nationalize oil and natural gas on federal land and get into the enegry business like Saudi Arabia

    11 11.34%
  • Cut federal spending

    66 68.04%
  • Sell services to prizate industry at a profit, privatize then tax them

    4 4.12%
  • other

    26 26.80%
Multiple Choice Poll.
Page 12 of 29 FirstFirst ... 2101112131422 ... LastLast
Results 111 to 120 of 285

Thread: What's the best way to reduce the deficit?

  1. #111
    Sage
    Karl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    12-18-14 @ 09:35 AM
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    5,561

    Re: What's the best way to reduce the deficit?

    Quote Originally Posted by code1211 View Post
    A widget that costs less and is of the same or higher quality [...]
    I see... you're not manufacturing widgets, you're manufacturing goal posts. Carry on

  2. #112
    Guru

    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Last Seen
    11-24-13 @ 11:44 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    3,001

    Re: What's the best way to reduce the deficit?

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    You buy into the corporate koolaid like so many toe the line conservatives do...

    Manufacturing in China does not decrease the cost here....what the freight will bear decides pricing not manufacturing cost.. The ran to china to avoid paying fellow americans a decent wage...out of GREED no other reason...they dont want to pay ANYTHING to their workers...no pensions no health insurance...they just want to stick it in their pocket.

    Blue collar workers in the US are overpaid.

  3. #113
    Sage
    Karl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    12-18-14 @ 09:35 AM
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    5,561

    Re: What's the best way to reduce the deficit?

    Quote Originally Posted by code1211 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by code1211 View Post
    [....] Whether it is as a nation or as an individual, the way to reduce debt is to reduce spending to less than income and pay off the debt with the excess. Loaves and fishes have nothing to do with it.
    Do you live in that conservative universe where increasing income is a mathematical impossibility?
    I live in Indianapolis where both the City and the State have surpluses.
    Dodge. I thought you were a Chrysler man.

    If the feds sold off the interstate highway system to foreigners, they might have a surplus as well. Did not Mitch Daniels thereby increase state income?
    Last edited by Karl; 07-15-12 at 01:01 PM.

  4. #114
    Sage
    PeteEU's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Denmark
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 07:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    29,089

    Re: What's the best way to reduce the deficit?

    Quote Originally Posted by code1211 View Post
    Many of your points are to punish those who have worked hard to have something when they need it. Why would you want to do this?

    Our health plan at work has changed from the old model of the 80/20 coverage to a system where the first dollars are covered 100% up to a plateau. All preventative care is covered 100%.

    After that initial plateau, 100% of the costs are covered by the employee and after that, it goes to the old 80/20 model.

    Suddenly ALL employees are seeking ways to stay under the plateau where the company pays 100%. Big time savings when you have thousands of people working to produce savings on every medical decision. This is a model that brings everybody together to make the right choice. This is a model that should be considered by any group trying to control Medical costs.

    Top down decision making, like the centralized models of Obama, are poison to savings as the skyrocketing deficits demonstrate.
    Listen, it is your lot, the GOP that claim that the US is in a deep hole with massive debt and deficits. You need to do something to fix that. Cutting and cutting from the budget WONT WORK, it is simple math! The social costs of cutting SS, medicaid and care are so massive that any big cuts here, will come and bite you in the ass. It is already doing this if you look at the TB outbreaks in the US. And we all know that the right would never cut the military budget, even though the waste there is massive and dwarfs the waste in SS, Medicaid/care.

    You need to fix the income aspect of the math, and here the single biggest problem is capital gains, which is a rich mans tax. Not only does it promote "non work" over actually daily work, but also primarily benefits the wealthy. And nothing pisses off people more than someone that is earning more than you, paying less in taxes in % than you.. and working far less for that money. Also Capital gains taxes have shown not to do anything other than make the rich richer since they dont pay taxes.

    There is no punishment in fixing the inequalities of the tax code.

    Another fix should be forcing everyone to pay income taxes, or at least go through the motions. Sure they might not earn enough to beat the deductibles, but they should be paying something even if it is just symbolic. In my home country we all pay taxes, even the 14 year old who has a paper route. Now the trick here is to make it an active system, and in Denmark we do it by giving each citizen a tax card, where they can either choose to take a bulk deduction or a monthly one. This they present to their employer and the employer puts their choice in the system. Now they might not earn enough to pay taxes, but the active part is key to getting a respect of the tax system and feeling part of the system. And before you come with the "administration" costs.. it is all electronic so costs very little.

    As for your health system.. it is horiffic and punishes those how have little... and the costs increases are not because of Medicaid and care, but because of the private sector not being under any control or supervision, so they have the ability to bleed the consumer dry. You have to understand that the whole system is a cartel and the faster people understand this and deal with it, the better.

    But as I stated, there is far too much money involved in maintaining the status quo.. for both parties. That is why big pharm pumped millions into the Bush campaign, so that they could get import of drugs banned and a sweet deal with Feds on buying drugs. The list of "buying off" the elected politicians on both sides, and including the sitting President.... is very very long. And as long as that is possible, then the changes will never be made that benefit the majority.. only changes that benefit the minority 1%.
    PeteEU

  5. #115
    Sage

    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 07:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    17,589

    Re: What's the best way to reduce the deficit?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Listen, it is your lot, the GOP that claim that the US is in a deep hole with massive debt and deficits. You need to do something to fix that. Cutting and cutting from the budget WONT WORK, it is simple math! The social costs of cutting SS, medicaid and care are so massive that any big cuts here, will come and bite you in the ass. It is already doing this if you look at the TB outbreaks in the US. And we all know that the right would never cut the military budget, even though the waste there is massive and dwarfs the waste in SS, Medicaid/care.

    You need to fix the income aspect of the math, and here the single biggest problem is capital gains, which is a rich mans tax. Not only does it promote "non work" over actually daily work, but also primarily benefits the wealthy. And nothing pisses off people more than someone that is earning more than you, paying less in taxes in % than you.. and working far less for that money. Also Capital gains taxes have shown not to do anything other than make the rich richer since they dont pay taxes.

    There is no punishment in fixing the inequalities of the tax code.

    Another fix should be forcing everyone to pay income taxes, or at least go through the motions. Sure they might not earn enough to beat the deductibles, but they should be paying something even if it is just symbolic. In my home country we all pay taxes, even the 14 year old who has a paper route. Now the trick here is to make it an active system, and in Denmark we do it by giving each citizen a tax card, where they can either choose to take a bulk deduction or a monthly one. This they present to their employer and the employer puts their choice in the system. Now they might not earn enough to pay taxes, but the active part is key to getting a respect of the tax system and feeling part of the system. And before you come with the "administration" costs.. it is all electronic so costs very little.

    As for your health system.. it is horiffic and punishes those how have little... and the costs increases are not because of Medicaid and care, but because of the private sector not being under any control or supervision, so they have the ability to bleed the consumer dry. You have to understand that the whole system is a cartel and the faster people understand this and deal with it, the better.

    But as I stated, there is far too much money involved in maintaining the status quo.. for both parties. That is why big pharm pumped millions into the Bush campaign, so that they could get import of drugs banned and a sweet deal with Feds on buying drugs. The list of "buying off" the elected politicians on both sides, and including the sitting President.... is very very long. And as long as that is possible, then the changes will never be made that benefit the majority.. only changes that benefit the minority 1%.



    It sounds as if you are from Europe. I love this about the internet that i can be conversing with people from various places with various outlooks.

    The big problem with our healthcare costs is that patients have been conditioned to not ask what it coasts and the providers have been conditioned to not know the answer. I work with a gentleman who recently had an operation. He asked what it would cost and was looked at as if he was from a different planet. He was asking the surgeon who would perform the operation in a hospital OR, there of course were various test prior to the decision to operate, there would be an anestestheologist in the room, there would be a time in the ICU, then some time in a hospital room, then some outpatient care and then follow ups...

    Every one of these things would be invoiced separately.

    Asking what does this cost is not a question that is easily answered in this system. The OR carried a cost of $24,000.

    In my own experience, before the insurance process changed at work, i allowed the doctor to select medication he wanted me to use without question. Now I do question it and have saved plenty of expense.

    That is a sensible change in the system. The Obamacare answer has about about 2400 pages in the law and each page will on average be supported by 10 to 100 pages of regulations. That is 2400 + 24,000 pages of legalese that we are to be subjected to. Your government might be a transparent one. Ours is not.

    Regarding our deficit, spending by the Federal Government per household has more than doubled, in constant inflation adjusted dollars, since 1965. I haven't noticed the improvement in the services to me.

    If you think that the answer is the government, we disagree. At the time of the establishment of the Federal department of Education, our students tested at the top of the world's scales. Now we are at about #20. I don't see the advantage the D of E has provided.

    Our Federal government is a cess pool of corruption, graft and bribery with very little to recommend it. Raising the amount of money they have available to steal is not the answer.
    Last edited by code1211; 07-15-12 at 02:52 PM.

  6. #116
    Sage
    Karl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    12-18-14 @ 09:35 AM
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    5,561

    Re: What's the best way to reduce the deficit?

    Quote Originally Posted by code1211 View Post
    [...] If the Trillion dollars or so of the Failed Stimulus had been used as tax credits instead of a fund to pay back, pay off and prop up Obama supporters, [...]
    Again with the debunked right wing talking points.... propaganda is no way to win a debate.

    And one-third of the 750 billion stimulus was tax credits

  7. #117
    warrior of the wetlands
    TurtleDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Ohio
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:24 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    180,591

    Re: What's the best way to reduce the deficit?

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    I put other....we do not need to raise taxs...we need to plug the loopholes that allow the rich and corporations to get away with murder...we need more regulation that MAKES them keep jobs here to expand the tax base.

    We need to cut spending reasonably in a way that does not hurt large groups of people...we need reasonable entitlement reform..

    If we combine all 3 of those we would zooom right out of debt....without anyone getting hurt except for the larynxs of the far right
    if the rich didn't get away with murder-as you blather-does that mean they would be paying 50% of the FIT bill rather than 40%? Its the middle class that pays far less than it should

  8. #118
    Sage

    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 07:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    17,589

    Re: What's the best way to reduce the deficit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    Again with the debunked right wing talking points.... propaganda is no way to win a debate.

    And one-third of the 750 billion stimulus was tax credits

    Tax credits or tax cuts? Big difference in the execution and in the effect.

    Who got the tax cuts contained in the Failed Stimulus and how were these intended to stimulate the economy? Please recall that the poorly designed and ill conceived Cash for Clunkers program actually did stimulate the economy. This is more like a tax credit. However, as soon as the Stimulative effect was being noticed, the program was cut off. Now, used cars are scarce and the entire industry of used car refurbishing is way down. Another unintended consequence of the know nothings in DC.

    What Is in the Obama Economic Stimulus Package

  9. #119
    Sage
    Karl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    12-18-14 @ 09:35 AM
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    5,561

    Re: What's the best way to reduce the deficit?

    Quote Originally Posted by code1211 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Spending cuts need to be the largest factor, we are spending far too much and it isn't sustainable. [...]
    Says who, and compared to what?
    Anybody with any sense says this --
    Actually it's the opposite, as I'll illustrate below.

    Quote Originally Posted by code1211 View Post
    -- and it is compared to what the feds used to spend. This link takes you to a chart that shows that Federal spending per household has about doubled since 1965 figured in constant 2012 dollars adjusted for inflation.
    Indeed it does. Assuming that the Heritage Foundation is not playing footsie with the numbers (like using budget figures instead of actual expenditures), it shows a linear progression in the amount of spending over the past 50 years. Common sense should tell you that such a linear increase does not mean that "we are spending too much" and "it is not sustainable"; although, upon reflection I suppose if it had then you would not have posted it in support that we are and it isn't.

    Nor, if the Heritage Foundation had any common sense, would they have described this linear increase as "skyrocketing". Bad thing about propaganda -- once you get used to promulgating it, you can't seem to stop. Based upon their own chart, if spending is "skyrocketing" now, then it was also "skyrocketing" under Nixon, Reagan, Bush Sr., and most certainly Bush Jr.

    Quote Originally Posted by code1211 View Post
    This is the perfect example of an organization doing less with more. Every other organization on the planet that has implemented the use of computers has reduced payroll as a result. Not the Gubmint. They have increased their headcount and the average pay of each head. What's wrong with this picture?
    Common sense -- it's missing (as the population grows, one might expect government to grow). Also facts -- they're missing too... the facts are that the total number of federal employees has decreased from 5.2 million in 1965 to 4.4 million in 2010. Ouch. See Total Government Employment Since 1962


    code1211's Heritage chart for reference, with a trend line in yellow added by yours truly. Note the flattening of the spending increase during the Clinton administration (1993-2000) and the reduction in spending since Obama took office. Almost a DNC campaign ad, eh?



  10. #120
    Sage
    Karl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    12-18-14 @ 09:35 AM
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    5,561

    Re: What's the best way to reduce the deficit?

    Quote Originally Posted by code1211 View Post
    Tax credits or tax cuts? Big difference in the execution and in the effect. [...]
    No difference.

Page 12 of 29 FirstFirst ... 2101112131422 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •