View Poll Results: Is paying your taxes patriotic?

Voters
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  • Yes, it is our duty as citizens to pay into the system that we have reaped the benefits from.

    49 80.33%
  • No, if you can get away with it, why not.

    6 9.84%
  • Who cares!

    6 9.84%
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Thread: Is paying your taxes Patriotic? [W:102]

  1. #351
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    Re: Is paying your taxes Patriotic?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheLastIndependent View Post
    We were well on our way indeed. Yet, that was not because of severe cuts, it was because of an extreme economic boom known as the internet bubble which had no connection to anything Clinton did. We cannot make huge cuts. What would we cut? I may not understand money, but I do know that history has proven that as an ineffective policy that has led to recession every time. Furthermore, the only tax that truly hurts business owners is the corporate tax which is far too high.

    Explain to me how an income tax hurts an owner when business expenses are written off on taxes.

    Lastly, Governmental economics and household economics are entirely different. There is no relation between the two. You cannot compare an international system to an extremely secluded system.
    Goverment debt is exactly like personal debt actually, or so similar as to be indistguishable. The first cut I would make would be 50% across the board. Thats before I would elimenate the departments of energy, education homeland security, and DEA. Thats for starters. The transportation budget ie roads and bridges funding soarces would be redirected back where they supposed to be roads and bridges not pedestrian walkways, trains ect. Airport fees would go to airports, and so on. My first budget would be balanced. I could also cut the budget by not doing COLAs and freezing spending to the current level. It would not be balanced for a while but no one could complain I cut their favorite piece of pork. The problem with goverment spending is it is increasing at unsustanable levels. Like it or not reality is going to slap you in the face, and the longer we put off doing what needs doing despite the pain, the harder that slap is gona be.
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  2. #352
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    Re: Is paying your taxes Patriotic?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheLastIndependent View Post
    We were well on our way indeed. Yet, that was not because of severe cuts, it was because of an extreme economic boom known as the internet bubble which had no connection to anything Clinton did. We cannot make huge cuts. What would we cut? I may not understand money, but I do know that history has proven that as an ineffective policy that has led to recession every time. Furthermore, the only tax that truly hurts business owners is the corporate tax which is far too high.

    Explain to me how an income tax hurts an owner when business expenses are written off on taxes.

    Lastly, Governmental economics and household economics are entirely different. There is no relation between the two. You cannot compare an international system to an extremely secluded system.
    As far as tax and business go, pretty simple really. Taxes are either born by business or not, it depends on their competitive situation. If not those taxes are passed on you and me though a surcharge or higher prices. If so then the taxes take from the businesses available pool of money which could be used in investment or purchases, or expansion. Expences are deducted, taxes for the most part are not but then that depends on the specifics of a particular situation.
    Semper Fidelis, Semper Liber.
    I spit at lots of people through my computer screen. Not only does it "teach them a lesson" but it keeps the screen clean and shiny.
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  3. #353
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    Re: Is paying your taxes Patriotic?

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateMk1 View Post
    Goverment debt is exactly like personal debt actually, or so similar as to be indistguishable. The first cut I would make would be 50% across the board. Thats before I would elimenate the departments of energy, education homeland security, and DEA. Thats for starters. The transportation budget ie roads and bridges funding soarces would be redirected back where they supposed to be roads and bridges not pedestrian walkways, trains ect. Airport fees would go to airports, and so on. My first budget would be balanced. I could also cut the budget by not doing COLAs and freezing spending to the current level. It would not be balanced for a while but no one could complain I cut their favorite piece of pork. The problem with goverment spending is it is increasing at unsustanable levels. Like it or not reality is going to slap you in the face, and the longer we put off doing what needs doing despite the pain, the harder that slap is gona be.
    We need to make cuts, undeniably. 50% is impossible. Education can not be cut, it's already bad with teacher loss etc. The department of energy needs to be reformed but not cut entirely. We need to find new and renewable energy in order to stay competitive. Homeland security's responsibilities need to be moved to the Dept of Defense. Drugs (or at the very least Mary Jane) need to be legalized so there would be no more need for the DEA. I agree with the Transportation, we waste too much on stupid "improvements" that are completely unecessary. The biggest cuts we should make are in defense. We need to close wasteful bases and remove garrisoned troops from the entire world. Germany doesn't need our troops, theyre their own country. Iraq doesn't need 47 fully functional bases, theyre their own country. We don't need to give money to Israel, they are a powerful country on their own.
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  4. #354
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    Re: Is paying your taxes Patriotic?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheLastIndependent View Post
    We need to make cuts, undeniably. 50% is impossible. Education can not be cut, it's already bad with teacher loss etc. The department of energy needs to be reformed but not cut entirely. We need to find new and renewable energy in order to stay competitive. Homeland security's responsibilities need to be moved to the Dept of Defense. Drugs (or at the very least Mary Jane) need to be legalized so there would be no more need for the DEA. I agree with the Transportation, we waste too much on stupid "improvements" that are completely unecessary. The biggest cuts we should make are in defense. We need to close wasteful bases and remove garrisoned troops from the entire world. Germany doesn't need our troops, theyre their own country. Iraq doesn't need 47 fully functional bases, theyre their own country. We don't need to give money to Israel, they are a powerful country on their own.
    Look, the goverment wastes tons of money I know I was a goverment contractor, I have seen it first hand. It is absolutely unbelievable how much waste there is. 50% is just the start off the top. There is so much fat in the United States budget you go to 60% easily. Education at Federal level is redundant and stupid, and pointless. Education is a local issue that should be delt with localy. Dept of Energy is unnesary. About the only thing we MAY need from that dept would be the Nuclear Regulatory Agency. That would be it. Maybee put the NEST teams under DOD or FBI. The Federal goverment has no business making an energy policy. Defence does need to be cut for a time. We are going to have to rely on our nukes for awhile, at least till we get the budget straightend. The funds that to Transportation ie road, tax fuel tax, excise tax, ect, should fund what they are supposed to fund. Our highways would be in far better shape if they were actually given the money they were supposed to get. They would be in a LOT better condition if they didnt screw with the funding. Most transportation funding is diverted to other purposes. On the fuel tax you pay 18 cents a gallon of fuel federaly and here in california 34 cents a gallon on top of that. Now how much fuel do all the cars and trucks use every year? It is a bloody hell of a lot. And the roads are not in good shape? Now you start to see the magnatude of the problem. My example does not include the other transportation taxes. As for foreign aid, it should be cut to 0. We are broke after all.
    Semper Fidelis, Semper Liber.
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    Stolen fair and square from the Capt. Courtesey himself.

  5. #355
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    Re: Is paying your taxes Patriotic?

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateMk1 View Post
    Look, the goverment wastes tons of money I know I was a goverment contractor, I have seen it first hand. It is absolutely unbelievable how much waste there is. 50% is just the start off the top. There is so much fat in the United States budget you go to 60% easily. Education at Federal level is redundant and stupid, and pointless. Education is a local issue that should be delt with localy. Dept of Energy is unnesary. About the only thing we MAY need from that dept would be the Nuclear Regulatory Agency. That would be it. Maybee put the NEST teams under DOD or FBI. The Federal goverment has no business making an energy policy. Defence does need to be cut for a time. We are going to have to rely on our nukes for awhile, at least till we get the budget straightend. The funds that to Transportation ie road, tax fuel tax, excise tax, ect, should fund what they are supposed to fund. Our highways would be in far better shape if they were actually given the money they were supposed to get. They would be in a LOT better condition if they didnt screw with the funding. Most transportation funding is diverted to other purposes. On the fuel tax you pay 18 cents a gallon of fuel federaly and here in california 34 cents a gallon on top of that. Now how much fuel do all the cars and trucks use every year? It is a bloody hell of a lot. And the roads are not in good shape? Now you start to see the magnatude of the problem. My example does not include the other transportation taxes. As for foreign aid, it should be cut to 0. We are broke after all.
    I agree with the foreign aid and and transportation. We need to cut defense. We don't need to waste so much for no reason. Operation Iraqi freedom was such a pointless waste of money that I can't even make a joke of it. The war in Afghanistan had some logical reason but we knew where to look for Osama, we just didn't.

    I see what you're saying with education now and I agree 80%. I still think there ought to be some federal regulations.

    As far as energy, we need federal R&D. We absolutely need to find a logical replacement for oil. It ties us with people that we don't need to be tied with (such as the Iranians). And absolutely we need to keep the Nuclear regulations. It would be far too dangerous to leave unregulated.

    I still don't think that we can plausibly cut 50% right now. I am more along the lines of 20-30% which is a huge step forwards.
    "The trust of the innocent is the liar's most useful tool." : Stephen King

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  6. #356
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    Re: Is paying your taxes Patriotic? [W:102]

    Quote Originally Posted by OnWisconsin View Post
    I think this question needs to be asked based on the arguments made in my previous poll. Some people just didn't see the relevance to why patriotism would be associated with where one puts their money.

    Romney has tax havens in foreign banks for the purpose of avoiding US taxes.

    He has made his money and taken advantage of the prosperity that the US allows him, yet he sets up foreign bank accounts to avoid paying the taxes on the money he earned here.

    So the question is: Is paying your taxes Patriotic?

    Remember, this is someone running for the highest (suppose to be) most respected position in the world.
    In a round-about way, yes, paying one's tax bill is patriotic. In the sense that it is patriotic to support one's country's business. Now, exactly *what* that business is and should be is a separate-but-semi-related issue.

    I define "tax bill" as whatever is legally 'asked for'. IOW: if the tax laws say you have to pay x%, and the tax laws allow you to get away with hiding income in foreign accounts, then that's all that is required and all that should be expected. Any injustices should be addressed by the lawmakers.
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    Re: Is paying your taxes Patriotic? [W:102]

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    ...[I]f the tax laws say you have to pay x%, and the tax laws allow you to get away with hiding income in foreign accounts, then that's all that is required and all that should be expected. Any injustices should be addressed by the lawmakers.
    And the lawmakers need to get on their high horses. We could be letting trillions of dollars sit away when we, America , need it the most
    "The trust of the innocent is the liar's most useful tool." : Stephen King

    "Commerce with all nations, alliance with none, should be our motto." Thomas Jefferson

  8. #358
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    Re: Is paying your taxes Patriotic? [W:102]

    According to Obama we will pay our taxes, and for the ones that don't....and only want to suck the system dry, ride off the backs of those who do pay. And what the hay, charge those who have supported many financial instituations with money, effort, time, and sweat equity double, because they have more now, than they had before. It's just our responsibility to pay into our system that we use on an every day basis, but all should pay equally. And I would park some off shore to if I had it. Many foreigners invest in America, and now own it, and have never even been in our country. But the road we are all traveling will fall apart if things go unpaid, and the payments should not get larger, or be partial. Those who are not working, or on food stamps and such...could volunteer on a must basis and those who can't could clean up parks and such, those who can't do that, could become part of a think tank to solve America's burden poor and misdirected.
    Anyone who takes advantage of America is down right American, isn't that how Obama came into office, he may have twisted his words, but really it doesn't matter...it got him there....will it keep him there ? Is there enough people out there who want more bills, less jobs, the rich are for sure getting richer right now, only because everyone else waited for change. You snooze, you loose. And after this long, he really can't blame the previous president....would you really be able to blame the last person that had your job, for this long? It cuts to the core of a person who does not take responsibility. If you don't want to pay taxes, there are still many places in third world countries you could live.

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