View Poll Results: Is paying your taxes patriotic?

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  • Yes, it is our duty as citizens to pay into the system that we have reaped the benefits from.

    49 80.33%
  • No, if you can get away with it, why not.

    6 9.84%
  • Who cares!

    6 9.84%
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Thread: Is paying your taxes Patriotic? [W:102]

  1. #221
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    Re: Is paying your taxes Patriotic? [W:102]

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Kids are forced to take things in high school that they may have no real interest in or no aptitude for. People are tested on the ACT in areas that they may have no aptitude for and will NOT even take in college. As a result their GPA may be lower in high school because of certain courses and their ACT may be lower for the same reason.

    For example, let us take a person who simply loves the Social Studies and wants to be a teacher of History. In high school they have to take several years of both Math and Science. They have no interest in either nor any particular aptitude in either so they do as little as possible and never apply themselves to those courses. They get straight A's in their Social Studies courses however.

    In college they take no math or science or perhaps a single course where they must. Their transcript is loaded with social studies classes at which they excel.

    Your high school GPA was not a proper measure of if they are smart or not. The ACT with sections on both Math and Science is not a proper measure on if they are smart or not because they are being tested on areas they will not study nor use in their profession.

    To stress those sort of rubrics as standards of intelligence and then to conclude that their other grades ( in their actual field plus education courses) are the ones in error is simply ridiculous. It should be the other way around.

    Neither you nor Turtle can cite any actual study or evidence which shows that education majors do not properly earn their grades. And for you to have a valid point, that is what you must do.
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  2. #222
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    Re: Is paying your taxes Patriotic? [W:102]

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Kids are forced to take things in high school that they may have no real interest in or no aptitude for. People are tested on the ACT in areas that they may have no aptitude for and will NOT even take in college. As a result their GPA may be lower in high school because of certain courses and their ACT may be lower for the same reason.

    For example, let us take a person who simply loves the Social Studies and wants to be a teacher of History. In high school they have to take several years of both Math and Science. They have no interest in either nor any particular aptitude in either so they do as little as possible and never apply themselves to those courses. They get straight A's in their Social Studies courses however.

    In college they take no math or science or perhaps a single course where they must. Their transcript is loaded with social studies classes at which they excel.
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    LOL-nice evasion-I made a comment that teaching majors are the bottom of the barrel based on HS GPA and test scores. That has been established as true. Cp made the observation that the major has rampant grade inflation. That was never rebutted either. Now we are told that teaching majors do worse in areas that they are "not interested in" compared to say engineering majors taking French or history majors taking biology.
    Yeah, I'd say Turtle pretty much smashed this one. We are to believe that the phenomena of people only doing well in the subjects that interest them is one that occurs only in those who go on to be education majors? That all other majors are mysteriously made up of students who do well in subjects that are not their focus? And that this somehow does not instead validate the claim that education majors are made up of relatively poorer academic achievers?



    Quote Originally Posted by Haymarket
    Your high school GPA was not a proper measure of if they are smart or not.
    that is correct - it is a measure of your academic achievement.

    The ACT with sections on both Math and Science is not a proper measure on if they are smart or not
    Actually those are, since by that time you have been exposed to the concepts you are being tested on. Your ability to retain and apply concepts is indeed a proper measure of intellectual ability.

    Neither you nor Turtle can cite any actual study or evidence which shows that education majors do not properly earn their grades.
    yeah, except I notice that you conveniently keep refusing to address that while education majors overperform their peers in college when it comes to grades, they then underperform them on measures of graduate-level learning achieved.
    Last edited by cpwill; 07-15-12 at 10:07 AM.

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    Re: Is paying your taxes Patriotic? [W:102]

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    yeah but we have seen your plan-it would raises taxes on the most overtaxed group at far far higher rates than that on the groups that are paying far less than they should

    as to the teachers unions-we have demonstrated they tend to be the bottom of the talent barrel but then are given outrageously inflated GPAs which might explain why they have such an outrageous sense of entitlement to the wealth of others
    And despite being challenged many many times, you are still impotent to offer any verifiable evidence that education majors who become teachers did not earn the grades they were given in college.

    All you continue to do is to make pompous personal pontifications based on your own self imposed extremist belief system.
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    Re: Is paying your taxes Patriotic? [W:102]

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbo View Post
    Man can you weave a tale to try to excuse or explain away anything, can't you?
    And which you are apparently both powerless and impotent to refute.
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    Re: Is paying your taxes Patriotic? [W:102]

    from cpwill

    Thank you. NOTHING in your reply had one iota of verifiable information showing that education majors who become teachers did not fully deserve the grades they earned in college.

    Here is what it comes down to for you and the others on the far right in your own words which reveal the real problem:

    We are to believe that the phenomena of people only doing well in the subjects that interest them is one that occurs only in those who go on to be education majors?
    The operative word there being the word BELIEVE. You believe what you want to believe because you chose to believe it because you want to believe it. This latest flap is simply the latest example.

    I stated the obvious many times

    Neither you nor Turtle can cite any actual study or evidence which shows that education majors do not properly earn their grades.
    cp attempts to counter with


    yeah, except I notice that you conveniently keep refusing to address that while education majors overperform their peers in college when it comes to grades, they then underperform them on measures of graduate-level learning achieved.
    I remember no data presented of that. Could you offer a link please?
    Last edited by haymarket; 07-15-12 at 05:16 PM.
    __________________________________________________ _
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  6. #226
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    Re: Is paying your taxes Patriotic? [W:102]

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    And despite being challenged many many times, you are still impotent to offer any verifiable evidence that education majors who become teachers did not earn the grades they were given in college.

    All you continue to do is to make pompous personal pontifications based on your own self imposed extremist belief system.
    your major fail is that you ignore the real issue

    are education majors generally dullards compared to other students at public universities? the answer of course is yes: as to "earning their grades" is a meaningless question because obviously the standard for an A in the teaching departments is far far far lower than what it takes to get an A in other majors. Its like asking if the football players at say Haverford earn their varsity letters-and the answer is yes. The more important question-for the purpose of this analogy-would be-are those who start for Haverford as accomplished as the varsity starters at Ohio State, Stanford, Texas, Florida or even Harvard and Princeton and the answer is obviously no.

    and that is the true point. if the average GPA for teachers majors is a 3.8 and those students have the lowest HS grades and test scores we can safely predict two things

    1) people from other majors would score much higher if they took the same courses or if the grading standards were the same in their majors

    2) education majors would not have a 3.8 major or anywhere near it if they had to take the same course work and meet the same standards as other majors

    Again-the Teachers' unions are among the most egregious groups when it comes to a sense of entitlement. I guess it comes from their professors telling them they are A students and then realizing that in the real world they are still the bottom of the barrel as they were in HS or after they got the results from the LSAT or GREs back

  7. #227
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    Re: Is paying your taxes Patriotic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daktoria View Post
    Paying your taxes makes you a loser.

    How much of a loser you are depends on how many taxes you pay.

    People who pressure others to pay taxes and take pride in humility are predators who need to be put in their place.
    So those who don't pay a penny of income tax and who receive welfare are winners?

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    Re: Is paying your taxes Patriotic?

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    So those who don't pay a penny of income tax and who receive welfare are winners?
    I think the dems call them IDEAL VOTERS

  9. #229
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    Re: Is paying your taxes Patriotic? [W:102]

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    true-but what is hilarious is watching the left scream that its unpatriotic for the overtaxed rich to use legal means to decrease their taxes while the same laws allow almost half the USA to reap the same benefits of a "civilized society" without paying any federal income taxes
    Both sides get on their spheals about what is american, unamerican, patriotic, unpatriotic, etc.

    Its not worth paying attention to from any side because absolutely none of it is true from any direction.

  10. #230
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    Re: Is paying your taxes Patriotic? [W:102]

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    And despite being challenged many many times, you are still impotent to offer any verifiable evidence that education majors who become teachers did not earn the grades they were given in college.
    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    And which you are apparently both powerless and impotent to refute.
    Are you really as stupid as you appear on DP?
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