View Poll Results: Mmm?

Voters
4. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, liberals expect everyone to have the warm and fuzzies.

    2 50.00%
  • Yes, liberals are self-hating cold people.

    0 0%
  • No, liberals just ignore cold people.

    1 25.00%
  • No, liberals are actually cold, and hate warm people.

    1 25.00%
Page 11 of 12 FirstFirst ... 9101112 LastLast
Results 101 to 110 of 117

Thread: Do Liberals Hate "Cold" People?

  1. #101
    Dungeon Master
    Veni, vidi, dormivi!

    spud_meister's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Didjabringabeeralong
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    33,874
    Blog Entries
    8

    Re: Do Liberals Hate "Cold" People?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daktoria View Post
    Fact based arguments are usually emotional. They assume that facts naturally reveal their importance.
    Lolwut?
    Value based argument are usually intuitive. Without stimulus, there's no activation, so you're only left with categorical judgment.
    Values are based on emotional reactions to events, so I repeat: Lolwut?
    So follow me into the desert
    As desperate as you are
    Where the moon is glued to a picture of heaven
    And all the little pigs have God

  2. #102
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Last Seen
    09-18-12 @ 08:07 AM
    Lean
    Private
    Posts
    3,245

    Re: Do Liberals Hate "Cold" People?

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    Lolwut?


    Values are based on emotional reactions to events, so I repeat: Lolwut?
    Values are based on what's necessary for us to be important in the world. They don't have to do with our particular emotions at all.

    1) Emotions aren't universal.

    2) We don't choose our emotions.

    Therefore, using emotions to derive values is unreliable.

  3. #103
    Dungeon Master
    Veni, vidi, dormivi!

    spud_meister's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Didjabringabeeralong
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    33,874
    Blog Entries
    8

    Re: Do Liberals Hate "Cold" People?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daktoria View Post
    Values are based on what's necessary for us to be important in the world. They don't have to do with our particular emotions at all.

    1) Emotions aren't universal.
    Neither are values.
    2) We don't choose our emotions.

    Therefore, using emotions to derive values is unreliable.
    Neither do we choose our values.

    Values are derived from emotional reaction of our own and those we observe of others to a given situation. If such a situation elicits a negative emotional reaction from us, we then decide we don't want such a situation as part of out value system. Whereas if it elicits a positive emotional reaction, we include it in our values.
    So follow me into the desert
    As desperate as you are
    Where the moon is glued to a picture of heaven
    And all the little pigs have God

  4. #104
    Sage
    SmokeAndMirrors's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    RVA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:19 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    18,160

    Re: Do Liberals Hate "Cold" People?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daktoria View Post
    Fact based arguments are usually emotional. They assume that facts naturally reveal their importance.

    Value based argument are usually intuitive. Without stimulus, there's no activation, so you're only left with categorical judgment.
    So basically you've eliminated all forms of argumentation on the grounds that they're are inadequate. Great. Let's just sit here and stare at each other in silence for a while.

    I'm not sure many conservatives are actually conservative today. They can be transformed into civic national socialists very easily by pressing them on labor theory of value, hard work, and work ethic. I see this a lot in New York where conservatives are becoming increasingly tolerant of social liberalism just because they want to do business. They surrender to their emotions just to stay busy, and compromise on individual freedom of assembly if that means keeping the economy on a whole rolling.

    As for your parents, I would guess your father's a liberal because he's surrendered to the system and doesn't believe he can stand on his own two feet. He's actually a conservative deep down, but pragmatism drives him otherwise.

    Likewise, your mother's probably bossy and identifies with making other people work hard to get things done. If she could have more fun, she'd be a liberal any day of the week in order to enjoy her life without paying the cost. She's just too stubborn to realize that.
    No True Scotsman fallacy ("they're not REAL conservatives, because all real conservatives are perfect!")

    Your baseless psychoanalysis of my parents is pretty far off. My dad's actually the most independent and inventive person I've ever known and trust me, he's not a conservative. And what you said about my mother makes absolutely no sense and is internally contradictory, so I can't address it because, again, you're babbling incoherently.

    Psychology isn't your thing. Don't quit your day job.

    You are probably one of the most illogical, emotional debaters on this site. And you should really stop throwing rocks from within your own glass house.
    Last edited by SmokeAndMirrors; 07-09-12 at 09:53 AM.

  5. #105
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Last Seen
    09-18-12 @ 08:07 AM
    Lean
    Private
    Posts
    3,245

    Re: Do Liberals Hate "Cold" People?

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    Values are derived from emotional reaction of our own and those we observe of others to a given situation. If such a situation elicits a negative emotional reaction from us, we then decide we don't want such a situation as part of out value system. Whereas if it elicits a positive emotional reaction, we include it in our values.
    Which of these are you talking about?

    Hypothetical imperative - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Categorical imperative - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  6. #106
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Last Seen
    09-18-12 @ 08:07 AM
    Lean
    Private
    Posts
    3,245

    Re: Do Liberals Hate "Cold" People?

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    So basically you've eliminated all forms of argumentation on the grounds that they're are inadequate. Great. Let's just sit here and stare at each other in silence for a while.
    Debate isn't supposed to take long. After it's finished, you're supposed to relate with who you're debating with and do something together.

    No True Scotsman fallacy ("they're not REAL conservatives, because no real conservative could be illogical!")
    ...except I explained why because modern conservatives are obsessed with economics.

    If you want a non-economic interpretation of conservatism, I'd suggest reading Russell Kirk's The Conservative Mind. A book summary of it can be found here: http://www.alabamapolicy.org/pdf/kirkconservative.pdf

    Your baseless psychoanalysis of my parents is pretty far off. My dad's actually a lot more independent and inventive than anyone I've ever known and trust me, he's not a conservative. And what you said about my mother makes absolutely no sense and is internally contradictory, so I can't address it because, again, you're babbling incoherently.
    Really?

    Why do your parents hold their beliefs then?

  7. #107
    Sage
    SmokeAndMirrors's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    RVA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:19 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    18,160

    Re: Do Liberals Hate "Cold" People?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daktoria View Post
    Debate isn't supposed to take long. After it's finished, you're supposed to relate with who you're debating with and do something together.
    What does this have to do with the fact that you just eliminated all forms of argumentation from consideration?

    And, who says? Not all issues are simple enough to solve in an afternoon, and if you think they are, you are in serious need of a basic education. And since when is there some obligatory post-debate outing?

    ...except I explained why because modern conservatives are obsessed with economics.

    If you want a non-economic interpretation of conservatism, I'd suggest reading Russell Kirk's The Conservative Mind. A book summary of it can be found here: http://www.alabamapolicy.org/pdf/kirkconservative.pdf
    So you just admitted that you're using the No True Scotsman fallacy. Newsflash: "conservatism" means different things to different people. There are any number of ways to interpret its basic tenets, none of which are any more "correct" than any other.

    Really?

    Why do your parents hold their beliefs then?
    You're assuming one must be dependent on the state in order to be a liberal? Since when? I'm not. Most liberals I know aren't. And I certainly know some conservates who are dependent on the state.

    Why anyone holds the beliefs they do is almost always far more complex than the Tinker Toy version of psychology you just trotted out. My dad believes what he does, and my mother believes what she does, because it's what makes sense to them for an array of reasons which have taken place over their 60+ year life spans.

    It's not as simple as "liberals are reliant on the state and conservatives like to make other people do their work for them." That is a childish, simplistic, irrational way to see the world. Which is pretty much what I expect from you, which is what makes your OP so ironic.
    Last edited by SmokeAndMirrors; 07-09-12 at 10:13 AM.

  8. #108
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Last Seen
    09-18-12 @ 08:07 AM
    Lean
    Private
    Posts
    3,245

    Re: Do Liberals Hate "Cold" People?

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    What does this have to do with the fact that you just eliminated all forms of argumentation from consideration?
    Not to be a wise guy, but I don't think you're really looking at what you're writing here.

    I'm eliminating forms on purpose. The point of debate is to focus on formulation, not particular forms themselves.

    Debate focuses on how people bring forms into existence, not whether or not a particular form is beautiful.

    And, who says? Not all issues are simple enough to solve in an afternoon, and if you think they are, you are in serious need of a basic education. And since when is there some obligatory post-debate outing?
    Post-debate outings are when you experience forms. That way, you show appreciation to the other side for coming to a mutual understanding.

    So you just admitted that you're using the No True Scotsman fallacy. Newsflash: "conservatism" means different things to different people. There are any number of ways to interpret its basic tenets, none of which are any more "correct" than any other.
    Conservatism requires conserving something. The only way you can conserve something is if you have an idea in mind.

    Economics is the means to that end, not the end itself. You can't have property without properness.

    You're assuming one must be dependent on the state in order to be a liberal? Since when? I'm not. Most liberals I know aren't. And I certainly know some conservates who are dependent on the state.

    Why anyone holds the beliefs they do is almost always far more complex than the Tinker Toy version of psychology you just trotted out. My dad believes what he does, and my mother believes what she does, because it's what makes sense to them for an array of reasons which have taken place over their 60+ year life spans.

    It's not as simple as "liberals are reliant on the state and conservatives like to make other people do their work for them." That is a childish, simplistic, irrational way to see the world. Which is pretty much what I expect from you, which is what makes your OP so ironic.
    The State is just a mechanism. It institutionally conforms everyone rather than letting people organically define their own culture.

    Whether someone depends on welfare or not doesn't matter. Liberals take pride in education, infrastructure, health care, social work, and pensions as State programs.

    There are many conservatives who depend on the State, but that's a self-fulfilling prophecy from being incapacitated by, and addicted, to it.

    You might want to read this segment from my link:

    With The Federalist Papers, Alexander Hamilton established himself as one of the most influential expositors of the U.S. Constitution. His political principles, says Kirk, were simple: he was suspicious of local or popular impulses and believed security from a leveling influence lay in a firm national authority. America would not have a unitary central government, so he settled for a federal one, energetically advocating for it with his contributions to “The Federalist” and other pamphlets. According to Kirk, though, his idealism had its flaws. It apparently never occurred to Hamilton that a centralized government could be a leveling and innovating government, nor did he bet on the social changes brought about by the industrialization of the North that he desired. Hamilton was a practical man of great ability, but those abilities, Kirk tells us, “had for their substratum a set of traditional assumptions almost nave; and he rarely speculated upon what compound might result from mixing his prejudices with the elixir of American industrial vigor.”

    Hamilton did not anticipate the stubbornness of the state and local governments in resisting the centralization of power. He thought his program for a strong national government would eventually eliminate these obstacles “by provoking a civil war which did more than all of Jefferson’s speculations to dissipate the tranquil eighteenth-century aristocratic society that really was Hamilton’s aspiration.” Kirk sees Hamilton as well-intentioned but inadequate to the task he set for himself. He was a man of particulars, who never penetrated far beneath the political surface to the “mysteries of veneration and presumption.”
    Last edited by Daktoria; 07-09-12 at 10:29 AM.

  9. #109
    Sage
    SmokeAndMirrors's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    RVA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:19 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    18,160

    Re: Do Liberals Hate "Cold" People?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daktoria View Post
    Not to be a wise guy,
    Oh trust me, I would never accuse you of that.

    but I don't think you're really looking at what you're writing here.

    I'm eliminating forms on purpose. The point of debate is to focus on formulation, not particular forms themselves.

    Debate focuses on how people bring forms into existence, not whether or not a particular form is beautiful.
    What does this babble have to do with using logic and facts in argumentation? Oh yeah, nothing.

    Post-debate outings are when you experience forms. That way, you show appreciation to the other side for coming to a mutual understanding.
    Uh, ok. You can perform whatever meaningless rituals you like I guess. But that sort of begs the question why you're debating on the internet.

    Conservatism requires conserving something. The only way you can conserve something is if you have an idea in mind.

    Economics is the means to that end, not the end itself. You can't have property without properness.
    More senseless babble. Conserving something has nothing to do with anything you just said. What you just said wasn't even meaningful in the English language.

    I know philosophy professors who would be shooting themselves in the head right about now, if they were reading your posts.

    The State is just a mechanism. It institutionally conforms everyone rather than letting people organically define their own culture.

    Whether someone depends on welfare or not doesn't matter. Liberals take pride in education, infrastructure, health care, social work, and pensions as State programs.

    There are many conservatives who depend on the State, but that's a self-fulfilling prophecy from being incapacitated by, and addicted, to it.

    You might want to read this segment from my link:
    Ok. So you're able to quote people far more literate than you, and post things they have written that are in no way related to the subject, any of your prior posts, or anything I said. Beautiful.
    Last edited by SmokeAndMirrors; 07-09-12 at 12:45 PM.

  10. #110
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Last Seen
    09-18-12 @ 08:07 AM
    Lean
    Private
    Posts
    3,245

    Re: Do Liberals Hate "Cold" People?

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    Oh trust me, I would never accuse you of that.
    What do you mean? Are you saying I'm not witty, or that you think I'm a wise guy all the time?

    What does this babble have to do with using logic and facts in argumentation? Oh yeah, nothing.
    Using logic is formulation.

    Are you familiar with set theory? Literally, logic is drawing categories to show how we organize our perspectives and judgments.

    Uh, ok. You can perform whatever meaningless rituals you like I guess. But that sort of begs the question why you're debating on the internet.

    More senseless babble. Conserving something has nothing to do with ideas. In fact, it's sort of the opposite of that. How can you conserve a new idea?

    Ok. So you're able to quote people far more literate than you, and post things they have written that are in no way related to the subject, any of your prior posts, or anything I said. Beautiful.
    Why are you mocking me?

Page 11 of 12 FirstFirst ... 9101112 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •