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  • Yes, blacks have their own heritage.

    13 81.25%
  • Yes, blacks can create something else.

    1 6.25%
  • No, blacks lack heritage.

    0 0%
  • No, black identity politics depend on government.

    2 12.50%
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Thread: African American Heritage

  1. #71
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    Re: African American Heritage

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    Pointing out that someone is using that accusation of racism, disingenuously, isn't the same as saying racism doesn't exist, or is a non issue
    Now all you have to do is to show that the accusation of racism was being used disingenuously.
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  2. #72
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    Re: African American Heritage

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Now all you have to do is to show that the accusation of racism was being used disingenuously.
    actually if you were throwing out such an accusation it would be dependent on you to prove it, or at the very least, defend it's use. Because such a claim is like any other, and the burden of proof would still rest with the claimant.

    Sorry, people aren't assumed to be racist until proven innocent

  3. #73
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    Re: African American Heritage

    Whoa, seven pages! I'm busy so I can't read the whole thread right now but I will later. I'll say something quick.

    To the original question, culture and heritage are 'living and breathing", to borrow a phrase. There is very little in the American black culture that resembles Africa, IMHO except adapting things that are imagined to be culturally African and a very interesting phenomena, contemporary African society admiring and mimicking aspects of the black community in America. I'm black and my black heritage started in America, not Africa. Are there special black American cultural expressions? Absolutely yes. Is there a unique black American heritage? Its funny to think some people think not. I have to run for now but I will say this. I doubt there would be a black American community today if not for the white community's decades past of forcing blacks into their own isolated group. The United Negro College Fund and the historically black colleges and universities they endow were a consequence of banning blacks from the colleges and universities that should have been for all Americans. Blacks churches were formed because blacks were either not welcomed at white churches or more commonly, not treated as equals at white churches. The Miss Black America Beauty Pageant was started because black girls were not initially allowed to compete in the regular Miss America Pageant and once they were it was only tokenism and they had no chance of actually winning until the mid 1980s. Of course, today America is far less racist but now we're dealing with proud traditions such as one's Alma Mater or fraternity that are as important to blacks as their mainstream counterparts of which blacks were once banned are to whites.

    IMHO the best solution going forward, which I think was always the motive of at least most black Americans, is to continue celebrating black American heritage but the hope (possibly fantasize) that all Americans of all races would celebrate them not just blacks. I have a difficult time understanding why only black Americans think MLK Day should be celebrated. I'm not Irish but every St. Patrick's Day I and every other black person I know wears green that day in honor of our fellow Americans who are of Irish heritage. My ancestors didn't come over on the Mayflower but I don't know a single black person who doesn't honor the sacrifices of the Mayflower pilgrims and give thanks to God for his blessing on this country every Thanksgiving. MLK Day, Black History Month, Juneteenth, etc. are American celebrations and should be for all Americans. IMHO Kwanza is weird so I'll exclude that one. Most Black people don't even celebrate it. Lift Every Voice and sing should IMHO be considered a patriotic American Hymn alongside God Bless America and My County Tis of Thee. White students should feel completely welcome at an historically black college, and in fact many do. FAMU in Tallahassee has more white players on their football team than many mainstream college football teams. Their Orlando campus, home of the FAMU School of Law has more white students than black students.
    Last edited by Smeagol; 07-09-12 at 10:57 AM.

  4. #74
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    Re: African American Heritage

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    I remain convinced that historical 'months' or 'weeks' based upon identity are counter-productive, insincere, and wrong.
    I agree that they are probably counter-productive, but we have an entire segment of the population which essentially can't form their own sense of identity based on their literal family history, so although it may be counter-productive, I can see why some people think it's desirable and/or necessary. It seems unnecessary to some people to look at where they come from, and take that information into account in forming their personal identity, but that's probably because it's something they themselves aren't aware that they even do.
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  5. #75
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    Re: African American Heritage

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    I'm guessing this came up because of Chris Rock's tweet about the 4th of July being a white holiday.
    Actually, Chris Rock called the 4th "White independence day" which is somewhat different from calling it a white holiday. He was noting the irony of calling it "Independence day" when many Americans remained slaves and, thus, were far from being independent.

    He was certainly making a political point, but it is also a pretty valid one.
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  6. #76
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    Re: African American Heritage

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Actually, Chris Rock called the 4th "White independence day" which is somewhat different from calling it a white holiday. He was noting the irony of calling it "Independence day" when many Americans remained slaves and, thus, were far from being independent.

    He was certainly making a political point, but it is also a pretty valid one.
    So only whites should celebrate the 4th or is the point that we should do away with celebrating it at all?

  7. #77
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    Re: African American Heritage

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    So only whites should celebrate the 4th or is the point that we should do away with celebrating it at all?
    Of course not. That's just the argument people have made up on their own in order to be offended by the factually correct comment made by Chris Rock. Nobody can actually be offended by it's actual content, so they make something up in order to be offended.

    If anything, one might be able to say that it is an argument to have Juneteenth recognized as a national holiday (not just a black holiday, but a truly national one) celebrating the date when all Americans became free from the tyranny of others.

    Or one can simply take note that it was a joke made by a comedian who is well-known for making similar jokes (see his bit about "He speaks so well, he's so well-spoken").
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  8. #78
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    Re: African American Heritage

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    actually if you were throwing out such an accusation it would be dependent on you to prove it, or at the very least, defend it's use. Because such a claim is like any other, and the burden of proof would still rest with the claimant.

    Sorry, people aren't assumed to be racist until proven innocent
    You are asking me to prove what exactly? That racism exists?

    your post to me in #70

    Pointing out that someone is using that accusation of racism, disingenuously, isn't the same as saying racism doesn't exist, or is a non issue
    You claimed that I was being disingenuous in the use of the word racism. So back it up with evidence as to that charge.
    Last edited by haymarket; 07-09-12 at 11:55 AM.
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  9. #79
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    Re: African American Heritage

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Of course not. That's just the argument people have made up on their own in order to be offended by the factually correct comment made by Chris Rock. Nobody can actually be offended by it's actual content, so they make something up in order to be offended.

    If anything, one might be able to say that it is an argument to have Juneteenth recognized as a national holiday (not just a black holiday, but a truly national one) celebrating the date when all Americans became free from the tyranny of others.

    Or one can simply take note that it was a joke made by a comedian who is well-known for making similar jokes (see his bit about "He speaks so well, he's so well-spoken").
    Whether he was joking or serious, I wasn't offended by his tweet. Nobody's obligated to view the 4th the way I do.
    Last edited by X Factor; 07-09-12 at 12:16 PM.

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    Re: African American Heritage

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    So only whites should celebrate the 4th or is the point that we should do away with celebrating it at all?
    the irony of this is had the British defeated us, black slaves would have been freed decades earlier than they were.

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