View Poll Results: What should military members be willing to sacrifice first?

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  • Retirement (explain how)

    8 26.67%
  • Medical Care (explain how)

    1 3.33%
  • On base amenities

    4 13.33%
  • A 5 year pay freeze

    2 6.67%
  • Other

    15 50.00%
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Thread: What should military members be willing to sacrifice first?

  1. #61
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    Re: What should military members be willing to sacrifice first?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lokiate View Post
    I saw waste every day in the Army too. We were supposed to have gone electronic to save paper, but we (as one company) must have wasted at least a ton of paper every fiscal year. We wasted fuel, energy, resources, all of it. I'm not even counting training, just the stupid ****. Hundreds of thousands down the ****ter every year, and that's just one company.
    OOOOOHHH!!!! You just shook the MTP pissed off tree. I HATE OUR WASTING OF PAPER!!! There's a backstory to this btw.
    In the Marine Corps, we are required to fill out a friggin 6 page booklet to go on extended liberty for Federal holidays, etc. This includes:
    -A cover sheet= 1 page
    -A sheet that shows every in the chain of command from squad leader up to company CO= 1 page
    -A Mapquest/Google maps route= 3 pages usually
    -A pledge that we won't be stupid and get a DUI, yada yada yada= 1 page

    Why you ask? Think about who cares about this stuff. Higher ranking officers, that's who. This whole thing is a big "cover my butt" operation. When Lieutenant Colonel Lobotomy goes up to Colonel Brainwashed , he says "But sir, he filled out a liberty package. What more could I do?" or he says "But sir, the lowly, peon enlisted men didn't fill out the liberty package properly........ Yes sir, of course sir. I'll make sure he gets NJP'd..........Yes sir, I'll end his career.........Thank you for letting me keep my command sir. Thats what counts." <--(that's the cynical version btw). Then Colonel Brainwashed goes up to General I'm a Uniformed Politician and tells him the same thing. Who pays in the end? Either way, the enlisted man. Who else pays? The taxpayer for a bunch of paper we don't need to use. The sad part is, there's an online version of it we could use on Marine Online. Why don't we? Because the lawyers over at the Staff Judge Advocate say its not admissable in a court martial if a Marine violates the liberty limits set forth. The reason? It doesn't have the Marine's signature on in, therefore it can't be proven that he actually filled out the liberty package online.
    Last part, and I'm sure some of you will like this. For an entire year, I saved every single liberty package we put together in my unit. Thats 6 pages, 120ish packages, every federal holiday, for a year. I put them in my walllocker. Then, when the cutbacks I knew were coming hit everyone in the face, I dropped the hammer on the Battalion CO. He wanted to have a meeting with all of the Staff NCO's and Officers about our fiscal forecast and how we were going to be hurting soon. I brought those packages with me. It took myself and 3 other Marines to carry it into the conference room. I piled it up on the table and said "You can start there sir. Paper ain't cheap." Guess what? They're still using paper. For the reason I stated above.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

  2. #62
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    Re: What should military members be willing to sacrifice first?

    Paperwork, I have only one thing to say...OPNAV FORM 4790/60, Visual Information Display System/Maintenance Action Form

    If you ever used one, you hated them. 5 pages, built in carbon, probably close to a hundred a day filled out in each squadron. I hope those have gone away.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  3. #63
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    Re: What should military members be willing to sacrifice first?

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    I disagree and I was not a career man...Men and Women who serve our country and all of us, during the prime years of their lives. Who live through the hardship of leaving their loved ones time and again, who are under the threat of supreme physical harm on tour after tour to chith oles and whos children have to go through the heartbreak of being uprooted from school and friends many times....DESERVE WHAT THEY GET.
    and in most cases deserve more....
    Hate to burst your bubble bro. Not many of us actually endure hardship. Hardship to me is what I've been through. Hardship is what Third Battalion, 5th Marines went through in the Sangin River Valley in 2010-2011.100 Firefights, Three Weeks: Inside Afghanistan's Most Insane Fight | Danger Room | Wired.com
    What most troops have encountered in Iraq and Afghanistan is this.
    What should military members be willing to sacrifice first?-imagescae6awj4-jpg
    What should military members be willing to sacrifice first?-no-doubt-tribute-band-no-duh-jpg
    What should military members be willing to sacrifice first?-swimming_pool-jpg
    I hate to sound bitter, but I am very tired (this isn't directed at you) of people acting like all of these guys that have Skype, a telephone, A/C, hot food 3 times a day, a toilet, etc are going through some sort of hardship. I have yet to go on a deployment where I have had access to any of those things besides in transit on the way in and out of theater. Sure, they're away from their family. That's about it. And they can see them every night if they want on Skype. Guys like that aren't going through any sort of hardship besides having to choose if they want an omelet or pancakes in the morning at the DFAC. I hate fobbits.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

  4. #64
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    Re: What should military members be willing to sacrifice first?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Paperwork, I have only one thing to say...OPNAV FORM 4790/60, Visual Information Display System/Maintenance Action Form

    If you ever used one, you hated them. 5 pages, built in carbon, probably close to a hundred a day filled out in each squadron. I hope those have gone away.
    Whats it for?
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

  5. #65
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    Re: What should military members be willing to sacrifice first?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    My son is nearing his 20 mark in the Air Force and he sees beaucoup wastes everywhere in the military.

    i remember once when i was stationed at Ft. Hood, i was doing a PM on my truck/trailer and noticed bolt missing...I went up to the motor pool to get one, the guy checked into what i needed and said it had to be ordered.....a few days later i was told i had something up at the motor pool, i went my "bolt" but instead i was given a whole box of bolts....i just needed one...too bad, the whole box was mine he said...i took one out and left the box.....i have no idea what they did with it but i guarantee the next guy who came to get one had to have one ordered and received his own box full too...............this stuff happened all the time.....and waste in the mess hall? please, they throw away more food than you can imagine...........

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    Re: What should military members be willing to sacrifice first?

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    Whats it for?
    Every time something an an aircraft breaks, or needs to be worked on, or you look at it, or the pilot has his head up his ass, one of those forms is filled out(you can see one here and yes we used almost every box: NAVY MAF Form). My home shop would clear anywhere from 10 to 40 a day.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  7. #67
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    Re: What should military members be willing to sacrifice first?

    They should sacrifice Liberals, anything used to protect liberals and any pro-liberal programs, then they wouldn't need to sacrifice anything useful to themselves or the country.

  8. #68
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    Re: What should military members be willing to sacrifice first?

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    IMO, we should sacrifice our retirement. When I say sacrifice, I mean that instead of being able to collect our retirement the year we leave our respective (I use that term loosely for everyone but the Marine Corps lol) service, we should wait until we are 55. I think 10 years earlier than everyone else is a justifiable reward for serving 20 or 30 years in an environment where you go to war for others who choose not to and you have no collective bargaining agreement in regards to your retirement to begin with. Some of the other stuff in the poll could go too. I just believe this should be first.
    While I completely agree with the need for fiscal restraint on the government’s part, and reviewing the current military retirement system is completely valid, however, I think there are some good reasons for why it is the way it is.

    For example, to have an effective force, the active duty/full time military should have healthy and relatively young individuals (for the majority of the force). So offering some sort of retirement after 20 to 30 years allows the make-up of the force to remain that way. This positively benefits the fighting force as a whole.

    However individuals are forced to find a second career later in life, and very often (but not always) the pay in that second career will be less than what they worked their way up to in the military, especially since they are (for the most part) starting at the bottom of the ladder again. So a modest retirement check helps off-set a somewhat lower salary than what they were getting.

    And by modest retirement check, let’s take the example of someone that is retiring right at 20 years at the pay grade of E-7 (an extremely common retirement rank). That person will get about 35%ish of what they were making as a retirement check (rough estimate). Yes, everyone in the media says 50%, however as many of us already know, it is 50% of Base Pay, which is not 50% of what you were getting paid. So, with all that said, to keep the force youthful and strong and to compensate individuals for having no choice but to change careers in their 40s. I think the retirement pay should be left as is (in my humble opinion).

  9. #69
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    Re: What should military members be willing to sacrifice first?

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    OOOOOHHH!!!! You just shook the MTP pissed off tree. I HATE OUR WASTING OF PAPER!!! There's a backstory to this btw.
    In the Marine Corps, we are required to fill out a friggin 6 page booklet to go on extended liberty for Federal holidays, etc. This includes:
    -A cover sheet= 1 page
    -A sheet that shows every in the chain of command from squad leader up to company CO= 1 page
    -A Mapquest/Google maps route= 3 pages usually
    -A pledge that we won't be stupid and get a DUI, yada yada yada= 1 page

    Why you ask? Think about who cares about this stuff. Higher ranking officers, that's who. This whole thing is a big "cover my butt" operation. When Lieutenant Colonel Lobotomy goes up to Colonel Brainwashed , he says "But sir, he filled out a liberty package. What more could I do?" or he says "But sir, the lowly, peon enlisted men didn't fill out the liberty package properly........ Yes sir, of course sir. I'll make sure he gets NJP'd..........Yes sir, I'll end his career.........Thank you for letting me keep my command sir. Thats what counts." <--(that's the cynical version btw). Then Colonel Brainwashed goes up to General I'm a Uniformed Politician and tells him the same thing. Who pays in the end? Either way, the enlisted man. Who else pays? The taxpayer for a bunch of paper we don't need to use. The sad part is, there's an online version of it we could use on Marine Online. Why don't we? Because the lawyers over at the Staff Judge Advocate say its not admissable in a court martial if a Marine violates the liberty limits set forth. The reason? It doesn't have the Marine's signature on in, therefore it can't be proven that he actually filled out the liberty package online.
    Last part, and I'm sure some of you will like this. For an entire year, I saved every single liberty package we put together in my unit. Thats 6 pages, 120ish packages, every federal holiday, for a year. I put them in my walllocker. Then, when the cutbacks I knew were coming hit everyone in the face, I dropped the hammer on the Battalion CO. He wanted to have a meeting with all of the Staff NCO's and Officers about our fiscal forecast and how we were going to be hurting soon. I brought those packages with me. It took myself and 3 other Marines to carry it into the conference room. I piled it up on the table and said "You can start there sir. Paper ain't cheap." Guess what? They're still using paper. For the reason I stated above.
    It's similar in the Army. I never got up to the level where I even saw a Colonel except at the PX, but LT's love love love paperwork, and roll that love downhill all the way to the team leaders. At one point in Korea, I (an E-4 SPC) had to have my Soldiers fill out some stupid "under the oak tree" counseling form in addition to the Squad leaders safety brief, right after the PLT SGT made us fill out a form stating we would be on our best behavior, after the Company brief preformed by the 1SGT and Commander. This happened every last day of the work week. Every last day of the work week, I had to bring a stack of paperwork to the Training Room and Ops. Then there were monthly counselings, counselings for when somebody ****ed up, briefs for leaving post, and additional brief for going beyond 150 meters of post, which also required a pass to be filled out and signed by me (team leader, which is an absolutely worthless position), the SL, PLT SGT, LT, 1SGT, and the Commander or XO. Every week we did PMCS, all papers reviewed and signed by the same ridiculously long chain of command, with the addition of the chain that leads to the Motor SGT, work orders, upon work orders, upon work orders, and my favorite: the counseling that allowed me to render inop equipment unserviceable for the purpose of legitimate turn in for replacement.
    Then there were the forms for listing of valuable items to be placed on your door so chain of command was not liable for stolen items, the long list of letters orders, directives, etc from the Commander printed and copied and to be placed everywhere imaginable. CQ checklists, Staff Duty checklists, JSIDS checklists, checklist checklists to check of the listed checks, and more checklists for the sake of saying why the hell not. Now I know what happened to all the worlds ****ing rainforests.
    I love the NSA. It's like having a secret fan-base you will never see, but they're there, watching everything you write and it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that I may be some person's only form of unconstitutional entertainment one night.

  10. #70
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    Re: What should military members be willing to sacrifice first?

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    OOOOOHHH!!!! You just shook the MTP pissed off tree. I HATE OUR WASTING OF PAPER!!! There's a backstory to this btw.
    In the Marine Corps, we are required to fill out a friggin 6 page booklet to go on extended liberty for Federal holidays, etc. This includes:
    -A cover sheet= 1 page
    -A sheet that shows every in the chain of command from squad leader up to company CO= 1 page
    -A Mapquest/Google maps route= 3 pages usually
    -A pledge that we won't be stupid and get a DUI, yada yada yada= 1 page
    we took images of the papers, fit them onto a Power Point, and shrunk the whole thing down to one page.

    Why you ask? Think about who cares about this stuff. Higher ranking officers, that's who. This whole thing is a big "cover my butt" operation. When Lieutenant Colonel Lobotomy goes up to Colonel Brainwashed , he says "But sir, he filled out a liberty package. What more could I do?" or he says "But sir, the lowly, peon enlisted men didn't fill out the liberty package properly........ Yes sir, of course sir. I'll make sure he gets NJP'd..........Yes sir, I'll end his career.........Thank you for letting me keep my command sir. Thats what counts." <--(that's the cynical version btw). Then Colonel Brainwashed goes up to General I'm a Uniformed Politician and tells him the same thing. Who pays in the end? Either way, the enlisted man. Who else pays? The taxpayer for a bunch of paper we don't need to use. The sad part is, there's an online version of it we could use on Marine Online. Why don't we? Because the lawyers over at the Staff Judge Advocate say its not admissable in a court martial if a Marine violates the liberty limits set forth. The reason? It doesn't have the Marine's signature on in, therefore it can't be proven that he actually filled out the liberty package online.

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