View Poll Results: What should military members be willing to sacrifice first?

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  • Retirement (explain how)

    8 26.67%
  • Medical Care (explain how)

    1 3.33%
  • On base amenities

    4 13.33%
  • A 5 year pay freeze

    2 6.67%
  • Other

    15 50.00%
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Thread: What should military members be willing to sacrifice first?

  1. #51
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    Re: What should military members be willing to sacrifice first?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Never have I done such a thing. They do, although the workforce is pretty tough out there for the dominant age group in the military. But let's not pretend that firing them is somehow "treating them better" than telling them they can't draw a pension until they are 55. You're the one talking about how we should look for all these other things before we ask them to sacrifice - but then you demand they sacrifice their jobs? How the hell does that make sense?
    Job placement programs, and giving tax breaks to employers that hire vets as the Democrats have proposed would be preferable to most vets than having their benefits cut, I would wager.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  2. #52
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    Re: What should military members be willing to sacrifice first?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Job placement programs, and giving tax breaks to employers that hire vets as the Democrats have proposed would be preferable to most vets than having their benefits cut, I would wager.
    Not to mention, after many tours of duty over seas, especially in a combat zone, I bet many military personnel would welcome aid in finding a civilian job.
    "Hmmm...Can't decide if I want to watch "Four Houses" or give myself an Icy Hot pee hole enema..." - Blake Shelton


  3. #53
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    Re: What should military members be willing to sacrifice first?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    this is funny coming from the person who didn't even understand her own cited source.



    You know how you can tell when you're losing? You get ruder .



    No, in fact, it is a remarkably dumb idea to do that. Because that means that you have fully functional ships full of willing sailors floating around wherever the tides take them because you don't have the money for any friggin fuel. Or you get satellites falling out of the sky and we can't replace them. Our F-15's are as old as the pilots flying them.

    But there is a reason you refuse to get specific other than to reference vague "savings" from "efficiency". Because anything you hack into is going to hurt combat efficiency and global security. Which ultimately means more dead people. Main exception being unless you reform spending on the soft squishy people running all this equipment. Then you don't hurt combat efficiency / security so much.


    Here's how we're spending:



    SO in fact those two items are not "half", but rather just shy of "two thirds".

    But hey, you keep on trying to solve the deficit without touching Social Security or Medicare. Maybe you can get some real good efficiencies out of squeezing foreign aid .

    Seriously, you haven't picked up on the fact that we're looking at cutting 30,000 Marines, 100,000 Soldiers, and enough Naval Vessels to put our fleet back at pre-WWI size? We're not doing that for the kicks and giggles.
    For some one being in the military, there is an incredible amount about the military you either do not know about, or are willing to lie about. Look at the second item on the list you gave. Operations and maintenance. If you think operations and maintenance cannot be made more efficient you have no knowledge at all of the military. Let me give you a hint about one way that has been done and done successfully, that the pentagon wants to do, but congress rejects: Base Realignment and Closure Commission - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia . Guess where the savings comes out of, at least partly. Better planning on aircraft and ship maintenance is a work in progress that results in the reduction of the need to expedite parts, which is painfully expensive to do.

    Third on your list is procurement, and if you don't think there are savings to be had there simply by better oversight you are incredibly silly.

    Research, Development, Testing and Evaluation is another one. We frequently take far too long to cancel failing programs.

    We have and can cut military spending without reducing equipment and without negatively impacting personnel. Tying to suggest you can't do it denies history and reality. The military budget is going to get cut, has to be cut. The republican idea that spending is bad, except for spending we approve of is why we have such a huge debt(note: they are not alone in this).
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  4. #54
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    Re: What should military members be willing to sacrifice first?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    It's not a question of "deserve". I don't deserve ankles that require me to crab-walk for the first ten minutes of every morning and hurt sitting in a chair. I don't deserve knees that go clicketyclick and throb every where I go. I don't deserve periodic bouts of depression and survivors' guilt. But nobody made me stand on the yellow foot prints - I chose this, knowing I would have to give. So I have to give? it's what I signed up to do. At this point, it's not a matter of what "we deserve", it's a question of utility. We have to give up, so, we should figure out what is best to give up.



    You know what else I don't deserve? I don't deserve to retire at the age of 44 with a nice monthly check and medical coverage from all my friends who will be working to age 67 in order to send it to me. That'd be a dick move on my part to say that I deserve that from them because I agreed to stand on the footprints. It's nice, I'll admit. In fact, it's a pretty sweet deal - which is why you see alot of guys double-dip and pull two retirements. But let's not pretend that we deserve that at the expense of other, more important stuff.

    Frankly, switching the pension to the TSP-match, over time, would be a better option for the younger first-term guys. They get to get out and get on with their lives with their retirement savings already started.





    Thats a crock of chit marine...no your not drafted and forced in anymore...but thats ONLY because the real american kids step up to the plate and volunteer, if and when they STOP volunteering to do what the rich kids WONT do, then you will see how fast the draft comes back so the rich can assure their richs and POWER.
    Look there is no way you can justify your attitude towards your own to me CPWILL...Ive seen the results of doing for your country up front and personal...We have lots of wheelchairs and missing limbs in my VFW and the DVA and the VVA...we have lots of smiling faces that gave up a healthy normal life for other dirtbags that could care less.
    NO ONE DOES or gives what a military person does, especially COMBAT TROOPS...no one....the mental strength you need...the moral strength you need not to become a criminal...the fortitude and COURAGE...the training...the days away from your family...your longing to hold your GF..your wife...your daughter...dont you even try to justify to me that our kids need to have LESS so the rich scumbags can have more......ILL PAY MORE...and Ill pay more happily and willingly....Our kids deserve nothing less than GUARANTEES, they get the best medical attention for what they gave...that they have income to live the rest of their lives NOT HOMELESS..that there is help for mental health and a GUARANTEED INCOME for the COMBAT DISABLED and the troops that gave all the prime money making years of their life to the service of their choice...your right wing stuff falls on my deaf veteran ears...and let me make this clear...I dont collect a veterans pension and I could easily get one just by applying I CHOSE NOT TO...I dont use tricare or go to Vet hospitals although I can...I have the means to provide for me and I do..and I believe I should leave it for another who needs it more than I....this is NOT about me....This is about what I believe is right.
    Im not going to get into this conversation again, my feelings are too strong on this and I will get banned for sure...thats why I avoid military threads..and the nam thread...I dont even want to talk about that chit or hear it anymore

  5. #55
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    Re: What should military members be willing to sacrifice first?

    Should we cut R&D so our troops have to fight was unimproved existing equipment? Remember, we already have many of our major weapons systems on extended life programs, and we are still feeling the effects of major R&D cuts during the 1990's. Almost all of them 1970's and 1980's systems designs.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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    Re: What should military members be willing to sacrifice first?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Why do people always ask this? This should be an infraction!

    Have some ****ing patience! The poll doesn't get posted when the thread is made. The thread has to be made *first* and then you get to add a poll to it. Give OP some time to think about what he's typing. The forum gives him 25 minutes, so STFU until then. Damn people WTF!
    Relax, Jerry. He didn't ask the question till the OP was up for about 10 minutes. Sometimes people forget the poll.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  7. #57
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    Re: What should military members be willing to sacrifice first?

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Should we cut R&D so our troops have to fight was unimproved existing equipment? Remember, we already have many of our major weapons systems on extended life programs, and we are still feeling the effects of major R&D cuts during the 1990's. Almost all of them 1970's and 1980's systems designs.
    You can cut R & D so that programs that are failing do not continue to get funding. It is not as cut and dry as you are trying to make it.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  8. #58
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    Re: What should military members be willing to sacrifice first?

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Should we cut R&D so our troops have to fight was unimproved existing equipment? Remember, we already have many of our major weapons systems on extended life programs, and we are still feeling the effects of major R&D cuts during the 1990's. Almost all of them 1970's and 1980's systems designs.
    We can easily cut R&D for a lot of projects, while continuing R&D for necessary programs. The Abrams for example. Still the best tank in the world, I don't see why we can't just order all new ones with updated systems and armor. We can also get rid of the Bradley and shift the funds wasted on those things towards real APC's that are current, and in existence right now. As far as aircraft, the Air Force wastes mountains of cash on developing the things. Example: the Air Force already has the F-22, why do they need an F-35? I can understand why the Navy wants it, but the Air Force clearly doesn't need it. The Marines are getting rid of the M-249 and replacing it with the HK M-27. A carbine rifle. It's nonsense. On top of that, we have so many different camouflage patterns and uniforms, you put Service Members from all the branches in one spot and you get a base that looks like a godamn gypsy camp. The amount of military waste is too damn high, and it needs to be stopped. That can be done without jeopardizing necessary developments.
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  9. #59
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    Re: What should military members be willing to sacrifice first?

    Piece of cake, start with a cease of all foreign operations and then make a 25% cut across the board. Then they can begin taking a good look at the various units and reduce the overall forces by about half. It wouldn't be enough, but would be a good place to start.

  10. #60
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    Re: What should military members be willing to sacrifice first?

    Confiscate the wealth of Chickenhawks like Bush, Romney, and Limbaugh. That was the punishment in Ancient Greece, when Alciabides's son had his father's friends got him exempt from war service.
    On the outside, trickling down on the insiders.
    We won't live free until the 1% live in fear.
    Hey, richboys! Imagine the boot of democracy stomping on your faces, forever.

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