View Poll Results: What should military members be willing to sacrifice first?

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  • Retirement (explain how)

    8 26.67%
  • Medical Care (explain how)

    1 3.33%
  • On base amenities

    4 13.33%
  • A 5 year pay freeze

    2 6.67%
  • Other

    15 50.00%
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Thread: What should military members be willing to sacrifice first?

  1. #41
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    Re: What should military members be willing to sacrifice first?

    Look at what we wasted in Afghanistan and Iraq alone? That is hardly chump change.


    "Stars And Stripes reports that as of May 2011, U.S. efforts in Afghanistan and Iraq totaled $9.7 billion a month, or roughly the entire annual budget of The Environmental Protection Agency.

    While the total amount spent on the two wars could range anywhere from $3.7 up to $5.2 trillion, depending how much the Pentagon pulled from its base budget, even small chunks could power many efforts at home.

    The amount the U.S. spends in Afghanistan and Iraq each month could run the entire State Department for four months.
    For the cost of one month in Iraq and Afghanistan, NASA could have launched the space shuttle five more times.
    Medicare's 2003 expanded drug benefits for seniors that will cost $385 billion over 10 years could be paid for with 40 months of Pentagon spending in Iraq and Afghanistan.
    Two years of air conditioning for troops in Afghanistan at $38 billion could provide 40 years of federal Amtrak funding.
    Five years of fuel for vehicles, generators and aircraft in Afghanistan at $10.3 billion could have paid for the 2010 EPA budget.
    Even the most basic estimates can be deceiving. From October 2010 to May 2011 the U.S. military bought 329.8 million gallons of fuel in Afghanistan at $1.5 billion or $4.55 a gallon. Reasonable at a glance, but that number doesn't reflect transportation costs to and around combat zones, injuries, deaths, medical treatment, and rehabilitation -- all of which drive the cost to hundreds of dollars per gallon."



    Read more: http://articles.businessinsider.com/...#ixzz1zXc65GZV
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  2. #42
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    Re: What should military members be willing to sacrifice first?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Where is the poll?
    Why do people always ask this? This should be an infraction!

    Have some ****ing patience! The poll doesn't get posted when the thread is made. The thread has to be made *first* and then you get to add a poll to it. Give OP some time to think about what he's typing. The forum gives him 25 minutes, so STFU until then. Damn people WTF!

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    Re: What should military members be willing to sacrifice first?

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    IMO, we should sacrifice our retirement. When I say sacrifice, I mean that instead of being able to collect our retirement the year we leave our respective (I use that term loosely for everyone but the Marine Corps lol) service, we should wait until we are 55. I think 10 years earlier than everyone else is a justifiable reward for serving 20 or 30 years in an environment where you go to war for others who choose not to and you have no collective bargaining agreement in regards to your retirement to begin with. Some of the other stuff in the poll could go too. I just believe this should be first.
    I'm 100% on board with you here.

  4. #44
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    Re: What should military members be willing to sacrifice first?

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    IMO, we should sacrifice our retirement. When I say sacrifice, I mean that instead of being able to collect our retirement the year we leave our respective (I use that term loosely for everyone but the Marine Corps lol) service, we should wait until we are 55. I think 10 years earlier than everyone else is a justifiable reward for serving 20 or 30 years in an environment where you go to war for others who choose not to and you have no collective bargaining agreement in regards to your retirement to begin with. Some of the other stuff in the poll could go too. I just believe this should be first.

    I disagree and I was not a career man...Men and Women who serve our country and all of us, during the prime years of their lives. Who live through the hardship of leaving their loved ones time and again, who are under the threat of supreme physical harm on tour after tour to chith oles and whos children have to go through the heartbreak of being uprooted from school and friends many times....DESERVE WHAT THEY GET.
    and in most cases deserve more....
    Last edited by lpast; 07-03-12 at 06:45 AM.

  5. #45
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    Re: What should military members be willing to sacrifice first?

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    IMO, we should sacrifice our retirement. When I say sacrifice, I mean that instead of being able to collect our retirement the year we leave our respective (I use that term loosely for everyone but the Marine Corps lol) service, we should wait until we are 55. I think 10 years earlier than everyone else is a justifiable reward for serving 20 or 30 years in an environment where you go to war for others who choose not to and you have no collective bargaining agreement in regards to your retirement to begin with. Some of the other stuff in the poll could go too. I just believe this should be first.
    A good idea, but not just for the military, as that is insane, IMHO. Many state/local gov'ts use the "80" rule, for the combination of age and years of service to determine retirement; allowing retirement as early as age 50 with 30 years of service. ALL (non-disability) public service retirement PAY, should be awarded at the same age as SS retirement 65 to 69 (including the option to take a lower amount at age 62).

    Other military retirement benefits, such as medical, dental, MAC flights and PX/commissary should be kept as they are, available in full after 20 (or so) years of service. 55 is NOT only 10 years younger than SS, for many that SS age is now 69 and may get older soon. I am sick of laws that allow (non-disabled) public service employees to retire at age 50 to 55, while private IRA, 401K and Keogh accounts may not be used (without severe tax penalties) until age 59 1/2. There is NO reason that the SS elegibility age can not be the universal retirement age for ALL born in that year, EXCEPT for the truely disabled, regardless of the carreer path (public/private) chosen.
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 07-03-12 at 07:09 AM.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  6. #46
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    Re: What should military members be willing to sacrifice first?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    You keep pretending troops do not have the capacity to work in the civilian workforce.
    Never have I done such a thing. They do, although the workforce is pretty tough out there for the dominant age group in the military. But let's not pretend that firing them is somehow "treating them better" than telling them they can't draw a pension until they are 55. You're the one talking about how we should look for all these other things before we ask them to sacrifice - but then you demand they sacrifice their jobs? How the hell does that make sense?

  7. #47
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    Re: What should military members be willing to sacrifice first?

    Gotta love this new american mindset....take from the working class they have too much....take from the military they have too much....take from public employees they have to much and GIVE TAX CUTS TO THE RICH SO THEY CAN CREATE more friggin jobs in china....unreal...you young people have been thoroughly brainwashed and your cutting your own throats...and when you realize it...its going to be too late...you are being BSd...they are creating this entire atmosphere of gloom and doom and keeping you unemployed for political gain....and PERSONAL gain.
    Leave the goddman military alone...if you cant do anything else leave those kids the hell alone...im getting pissed im gonna slide out awhile

  8. #48
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    Re: What should military members be willing to sacrifice first?

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    I disagree and I was not a career man...Men and Women who serve our country and all of us, during the prime years of their lives. Who live through the hardship of leaving their loved ones time and again, who are under the threat of supreme physical harm on tour after tour to chith oles and whos children have to go through the heartbreak of being uprooted from school and friends many times....DESERVE WHAT THEY GET.
    and in most cases deserve more....
    It's not a question of "deserve". I don't deserve ankles that require me to crab-walk for the first ten minutes of every morning and hurt sitting in a chair. I don't deserve knees that go clicketyclick and throb every where I go. I don't deserve periodic bouts of depression and survivors' guilt. But nobody made me stand on the yellow foot prints - I chose this, knowing I would have to give. So I have to give? it's what I signed up to do. At this point, it's not a matter of what "we deserve", it's a question of utility. We have to give up, so, we should figure out what is best to give up.

    Frankly, switching the pension to the TSP-match, over time, would be a better option for the younger first-term guys. They get to get out and get on with their lives with their retirement savings already started.

    You know what else I don't deserve? I don't deserve to retire at the age of 44 with a nice monthly check and medical coverage from all my friends who will be working to age 67 in order to send it to me. That'd be a dick move on my part to say that I deserve that from them because I agreed to stand on the footprints. It's nice, I'll admit. In fact, it's a pretty sweet deal - which is why you see alot of guys double-dip and pull two retirements. But let's not pretend that we deserve that at the expense of other, more important stuff.

  9. #49
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    Re: What should military members be willing to sacrifice first?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post

    That is correct - you will not. The "let's just pull back from everywhere else" idea A) actually costs alot of money and B) dependent on where it is done, risks undercutting world trade which spins us back into a global recession. 2013 DOD Budget Request.
    Who said anything about "let's just pull back from everywhere"? Not me certainly. I have simply been pointing out your complete lack of understanding of military spending and reality. You point to two things which make up about half of military spending and say that since they are the two biggest, you can't cut military spending without cutting those, which is patently stupid. Not only can you do just that, it is in fact a good idea to do that.
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  10. #50
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    Re: What should military members be willing to sacrifice first?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Who said anything about "let's just pull back from everywhere"? Not me certainly. I have simply been pointing out your complete lack of understanding of military spending and reality.
    this is funny coming from the person who didn't even understand her own cited source.

    You point to two things which make up about half of military spending and say that since they are the two biggest, you can't cut military spending without cutting those, which is patently stupid.
    You know how you can tell when you're losing? You get ruder .

    Not only can you do just that, it is in fact a good idea to do that.
    No, in fact, it is a remarkably dumb idea to do that. Because that means that you have fully functional ships full of willing sailors floating around wherever the tides take them because you don't have the money for any friggin fuel. Or you get satellites falling out of the sky and we can't replace them. Our F-15's are as old as the pilots flying them.

    But there is a reason you refuse to get specific other than to reference vague "savings" from "efficiency". Because anything you hack into is going to hurt combat efficiency and global security. Which ultimately means more dead people. Main exception being unless you reform spending on the soft squishy people running all this equipment. Then you don't hurt combat efficiency / security so much.


    Here's how we're spending:

    Military Personnel $142,828,848 25.82%

    Operation and Maintenance $204,423,110 36.96%

    Procurement $113,028,178 20.44%

    RDT&E $75,325,082 13.62%

    Military Construction $13,071,701 2.36%

    Family Housing $1,694,346 0.31%

    Revolving and Management Funds $2,701,394 0.49%
    SO in fact those two items are not "half", but rather just shy of "two thirds".

    But hey, you keep on trying to solve the deficit without touching Social Security or Medicare. Maybe you can get some real good efficiencies out of squeezing foreign aid .

    Seriously, you haven't picked up on the fact that we're looking at cutting 30,000 Marines, 100,000 Soldiers, and enough Naval Vessels to put our fleet back at pre-WWI size? We're not doing that for the kicks and giggles.
    Last edited by cpwill; 07-03-12 at 10:22 AM.

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