View Poll Results: What should military members be willing to sacrifice first?

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  • Retirement (explain how)

    8 26.67%
  • Medical Care (explain how)

    1 3.33%
  • On base amenities

    4 13.33%
  • A 5 year pay freeze

    2 6.67%
  • Other

    15 50.00%
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Thread: What should military members be willing to sacrifice first?

  1. #21
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    Re: What should military members be willing to sacrifice first?

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    Just a note on something similar to the highlighted above. I received a Range Control phone roster from a civilian at Ft Campbell a week ago when I went for the Range Safety Officer course. There are, and this is an estimate off the top of my head, at least 50 guys working at range control on that base. All with their own phone number, I assume their own office based off of the fact that they all have their own phone number, and many of them with the same job title. Do we really need 50 people running range control? It can't be that hard. The SDZ's (cpwill, you know what I'm talking about I'm sure) stay the same, the ranges very seldom change, and maintenance is many times conducted by the range user not range control. It seems to me that ranges should be able to run themselves once the safety stuff is done.
    Yeah, and you and I have spoken before about the need to put "fiscal success" in fitreps - it seems that would be the sort of thing that should fall under the Base Commander. But you and I also know that trimming down the "retiree" force is chump change.


    How much money could we save if we offered active duty an HSA-style option like the State of Indiana did? They saw costs decrease by 11% in two fiscal years. TRICARE Standard and Prime could stick around for the Extraordinary Family Member types, or the ones who just are banged up enough to need it, but the younger, healthier masses would be incentivized to move to a cheaper program.

  2. #22
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    Re: What should military members be willing to sacrifice first?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Ah, it must be silly season. Because two things are the biggest, that must mean that is the only place spending happens.
    no. But significantly cutting DOD spending without hitting those two things is like balancing the budget without cutting Social Security and Medicare. It's not plausible.

    So you create this painfully silly false claim.
    no... the "we can just squeeze it all out of efficiency without any hard or painful choices" pipe dream is the silly claim. reality demands sacrifice.

  3. #23
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    Re: What should military members be willing to sacrifice first?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    no. But significantly cutting DOD spending without hitting those two things is like balancing the budget without cutting Social Security and Medicare. It's not plausible.



    no... the "we can just squeeze it all out of efficiency without any hard or painful choices" pipe dream is the silly claim. reality demands sacrifice.
    Look at the link above:

    Dodaro also cited material weaknesses involving an estimated $125.4 billion in improper payments
    You are so right, can't make any significant cuts without hitting two items that account for only about half of military spending....
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

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  4. #24
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    Re: What should military members be willing to sacrifice first?

    My Father is 100 years old and has been retired from the Army, fully disabled, since 1967. That's 45 years now and he shows no signs of departing this earth. I'm 68 and he'll probably outlive me.

    According to my calculations, he costs the taxpayer around $150,000 a year. His current salary is $9,000 and he has medical benefits that cost plenty. So, he has consumed $6,750,000.00 since retiring. He is far from the only one. Until society figures out that we don't die you anymore and that reality had better start appearing in our judgements and calculations.

    No position taken. Just information that I thought would be worth noting in the very thoughtful thread.

  5. #25
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    Re: What should military members be willing to sacrifice first?

    I agree with setting an age at which we can start drawing retirement, such as 55. As it currently stands you start drawing your pension the day you retire from the military, regardless of age. So if you enlist at 18 and retire after 20 years, you will start drawing a pension (that amounts to about 50% of your base pay) at the ripe old age of 38 and it will continue for the rest of your life.

    So, yeah, I think we could set an older age. But I donít think we should pull a bait and switch on people who are already in. Grandfather them in and start the new retirement system for new recruits.

  6. #26
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    Re: What should military members be willing to sacrifice first?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I support cuts to the defense budget in the near future. We can make those cuts without making our troops sacrifice. Efficiency improvements alone in a 700 billion budget could account for significant savings.
    I vote other. We need to make cuts where our military spending that is the most wasteful, and that is not in the pay and benefits of our troops.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  7. #27
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    Re: What should military members be willing to sacrifice first?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Look at the link above:
    Quote Originally Posted by the section you pulled out of the link
    Dodaro also cited material weaknesses involving an estimated $125.4 billion in improper payments
    I like how you tried to take that out of context to make it look like solely a DOD issue:

    ...In addition GAO was unable to render an opinion on the 2010 Statement of Social Insurance because of significant uncertainties, primarily related to the achievement of projected reductions in Medicare cost growth. The consolidated financial statements discuss these uncertainties, which relate to reductions in physician payment rates and to productivity improvements, and provide an illustrative alternative projection to illustrate the uncertainties.

    Dodaro also cited material weaknesses involving an estimated $125.4 billion in improper payments, information security across government, and tax collection activities. He noted that three major agencies—DOD, the Department of Homeland Security, and the Department of Labor—did not get clean opinions. Nineteen of 24 major agencies did get clean opinions on all their statements.

    “Given the federal government’s fiscal challenges, it’s imperative that Congress, the administration, and federal managers have reliable, useful, and timely financial and performance information. Improved accuracy and transparency in financial reporting are urgently needed,” Dodaro said....
    SO that estimated $125.4 Billion are spread across at least 19 Major Agencies, and apparently includes tax fraud. Nice.

    You are so right, can't make any significant cuts without hitting two items that account for only about half of military spending....
    That is correct - you will not. The "let's just pull back from everywhere else" idea A) actually costs alot of money and B) dependent on where it is done, risks undercutting world trade which spins us back into a global recession. 2013 DOD Budget Request.

  8. #28
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    Re: What should military members be willing to sacrifice first?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    I vote other. We need to make cuts where our military spending that is the most wasteful, and that is not in the pay and benefits of our troops.
    Ah yes. This must be the magical waste that is going to save us, just like the magical savings that the IPAB is going to find to make Medicare sustainable.

  9. #29
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    Re: What should military members be willing to sacrifice first?

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    IMO, we should sacrifice our retirement. When I say sacrifice, I mean that instead of being able to collect our retirement the year we leave our respective (I use that term loosely for everyone but the Marine Corps lol) service, we should wait until we are 55. I think 10 years earlier than everyone else is a justifiable reward for serving 20 or 30 years in an environment where you go to war for others who choose not to and you have no collective bargaining agreement in regards to your retirement to begin with. Some of the other stuff in the poll could go too. I just believe this should be first.
    The only benefit I reap, and expect are my educational benefits since they're in my contract. If they take that away there's going to be a legal battle.
    I love the NSA. It's like having a secret fan-base you will never see, but they're there, watching everything you write and it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that I may be some person's only form of unconstitutional entertainment one night.

  10. #30
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    Re: What should military members be willing to sacrifice first?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Ah yes. This must be the magical waste that is going to save us, just like the magical savings that the IPAB is going to find to make Medicare sustainable.
    Cute, but there is nothing magical about cutting waste in our excessive military spending. Did you miss Tessa's very concrete examples, all of which should come before making cuts to our troops who are already underpaid.


    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    There are other options.

    1. We could rework treaties that obligate us to keep forces in countries that we don't really need to be in. We could then significantly cut the number of troops we have at these locations. Those troops could be reassigned or put on reserve and put back into the civilian work force (of course this would take place as the economy recovers).
    2. We could cancel out defensive contracts for materials the military doesn't want/need.
    3. We could stop funding the military arsenal of countries more than capable of buying/creating their own.
    4. Let the border states employ their own forces to defend and fortify the borders.
    5. Lower administrative salaries at the DOD.
    6. Cancel out defensive contracts for mercenary/manual labor programs.

    And I'm sure there are several other options that don't include screwing over our military troops.
    .................
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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