View Poll Results: Do We Still Need the SCOTUS?

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  • No...it serves no real purpose.

    2 5.71%
  • Yes..we must have something to protect our Constitution.

    26 74.29%
  • We only need it when they agree with my guys.

    3 8.57%
  • It's not that simple...I'll explain

    4 11.43%
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Thread: Do We Still Need The SCOTUS?

  1. #41
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    Re: Do We Still Need The SCOTUS?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    What? If ONE out of the nine robed umpires finds reason A to make something constitutional, 4 find reason B to make something constitutional and 4 find reason B to make something unconstitutional we just add up all of the yeses and nos and call it a 5/4 MAJORITY opinion, even if 8/9 disagree with it? (I know one umpire sat it out, but you get my drift).
    After passing through 2 chambers of an elected Congress and being signed by an elected President....it then went to the Supreme Court and was found constitutional. I mean how many hoops does legislation have to jump through for it to be considered legitimate?
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

  2. #42
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    Re: Do We Still Need The SCOTUS?

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Science...Academics...now you're starting to see it applied to the most conservative Supreme Court in a long time.

    It's totalitarian thinking.
    Except there are several conservative or conservative-leaning posters in this thread specifically saying NOT to discard the SCOTUS...so your premise is ridiculous, insulting, and entirely counterproductive.
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  3. #43
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    Re: Do We Still Need The SCOTUS?

    Quote Originally Posted by tecoyah View Post
    It would seem "Some" folks now believe the Supreme Court of the United States to be an irrelevant body, as the decisions that come down are no longer the last word on our constitution. Between the Roe v.Wade issue, Immigration, and now ACA, they have decided to fight to the death regardless of law.

    So...whats the point?

    Yep, we need the Supreme Court.

    I think we could possibly do without the Congress if we get high tech enough to let the public vote on bills. Or we might be able to do without the President by just letting the Speaker of the House also be CEO of the country similar to the UK's Prime Minister.

  4. #44
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    Re: Do We Still Need The SCOTUS?

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    Except there are several conservative or conservative-leaning posters in this thread specifically saying NOT to discard the SCOTUS...so your premise is ridiculous, insulting, and entirely counterproductive.
    I didn't mean it on a personal level I meant it at an institutional and aggregate level. Is it not true? Have conservatives at a national level attacked Academics and Science? Do a lot of Conservatives distrust what scientists or academics say? Based on polling conservatives distrust those instititutions at a much higher level than Liberals or Independents.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

  5. #45
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    Re: Do We Still Need The SCOTUS?

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    After passing through 2 chambers of an elected Congress and being signed by an elected President....it then went to the Supreme Court and was found constitutional. I mean how many hoops does legislation have to jump through for it to be considered legitimate?
    When an overwhelming number of SCOTUS justices disagree with the majority opinion, then why is it constitutional?
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  6. #46
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    Re: Do We Still Need The SCOTUS?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    When an overwhelming number of SCOTUS justices disagree with the majority opinion, then why is it constitutional?
    Because that's how it operates? I mean...what should it require a super majority? So something can pass via elected officials yet 4 supreme court justices can shut it down? With the number of 5-4 opinions lately you're basically saying that virtually nothing will get through the Supreme Court. So if it gets through deadlocked Congress it will die in a deadlocked Supreme Court?
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

  7. #47
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    Re: Do We Still Need The SCOTUS?

    Being tied down by the supremacy of a document that reflects obsolete 18th Century thinking and disregards popular opinion is similar to Christianity being tied down to a primitive Bible. Instead of being subjected to fundamentalist Constitutionality, laws should only be judged by what the majority of people think is for the good of the country.

    In Marbury v. Madison, the Federalist Court committed the logical fallacy of interpreting the Constitution as giving it the right to interpret the Constitution. Obviously, the Justices' dicatatorial power wasn't granted by the Constitution or they would have been appealed to in order to cancel laws enacted in the 12 years of previous Federalist rule. When, under Jefferson, democracy was feared as a Reign of Terror, the anti-democratic court took this opportunity to take the law away from the people. Jefferson, by the way, was not at the Constitutional Convention and later violated the ineffective and impractical Constitution with his Lousiana Purchase. Being America's main champion against kingly powers, he was also outraged by Judicial Supremacy and intimidated the Court by impeaching the Federalist usurpers. Andrew Jackson also defied the Court in removing a clear and present Indian threat to the Southeastern states.

    In a country ruled by the people and for the people, the only purpose in having a Constitution and a Supreme Court is to rule on cases of conflicting jurisdiction. For example, if Texas banned flag-burning and Congress permitted it, it would not be a free speech issue, but would be rationally settled by allowing the burning of the American flag in Texas but not the Lone Star flag.
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  8. #48
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    Re: Do We Still Need The SCOTUS?

    Quote Originally Posted by tecoyah View Post
    It would seem "Some" folks now believe the Supreme Court of the United States to be an irrelevant body, as the decisions that come down are no longer the last word on our constitution. Between the Roe v.Wade issue, Immigration, and now ACA, they have decided to fight to the death regardless of law.

    So...whats the point?

    It's not that simple.

    The SCOTUS was never originally intended to be the final word on the Constitutionality of laws and acts of government, but rather appropriated that role through implied judicial powers.

    I'm okay with Judicial Review... it is long established and has often served us well. Certainly we need at least one body that is dedicated to putting on the brakes when Congress/etc exceeds their Constitutional mandate.


    But that isn't the be-all-end-all of Constitutionality, nor of whether a policy is a good policy or one desired by the public. The Congress has the Constitutional power to remove an item from SCOTUS purview, but to my knowlege it has rarely ever been used.... it would certainly raise a stink. A law may be Constitutional but still be repealed by Congress... the Constitution is more about limits than about "mandates".

    In theory, every branch and division of government has its checks and balances against the others.... the SCOTUS has its place, but its word is not always equivalent to Papal Infallibility.

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  9. #49
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    Re: Do We Still Need The SCOTUS?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    The case that is being referenced whenever you've heard people talking about "Corporations are People"

    Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission
    People were calling for the abolishment of the SCOTUS when that case was decided?
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  10. #50
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    Re: Do We Still Need The SCOTUS?

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    Except there are several conservative or conservative-leaning posters in this thread specifically saying NOT to discard the SCOTUS...so your premise is ridiculous, insulting, and entirely counterproductive.
    He didn't say you were trying to abolish SCOTUS. At least not in the post you're referencing. He wrote that they are trying to "delegitimize" it. That in and of itself is entirely true. Conservatives try to destroy the legitimacy of institutions that don't agree with them. Example: any scientific organization that argues in favor of: evolution, global warming, etc. In the liberal arts they completely dismiss any non-revisionist who says the civil war was mainly about slavery. Then when it comes to the media they attack (insert your source here) when it labels Republicans as Republicans and Democrats as Democrats. Still think this is not the case? I remember j-mac once telling me that NASA had no credibility. Can you imagine that? It's absolute disgusting the disdain that conservatism as an ideology has for academia.
    Last edited by Hatuey; 07-02-12 at 06:23 PM.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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