View Poll Results: What level of influence does a Chief Executive have over the economy?

Voters
31. You may not vote on this poll
  • The CE is "the man". He steers it all.

    1 3.23%
  • The CE may not be a dictator, but still desreves the bulk of the blame/credit.

    4 12.90%
  • The CE sets "the tone", but has little actual influence.

    17 54.84%
  • The CE has virtually no influence whatsoever.

    3 9.68%
  • Other?

    6 19.35%
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Thread: What level of influence does a Chief Executive have over the economy?

  1. #21
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    Re: What level of influence does a Chief Executive have over the economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Very well, what are you willing to wager on this?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I'm not sure how a wager would work, because as I said, Republicans could always find some lovely euphemism for "stimulus," and/or create some rationale as to why their stimulus was different than Obama's. Such a situation would allow an easy "out," as the party taking the negative side of the bet could always claim it wasn't really a stimulus.
    I say a "worship thread". The loser has to post a poll titled "Cpwill/Kandahar is the greatest human being 1) In the last century 2) Ever in America or 3) That I have ever heard of". Then, the loser has to submit support for his choice of one of the three with a 500 word post about how awesome the winner is. I will be the mediator/abitrator in this. Deal?
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
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  2. #22
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    Re: What level of influence does a Chief Executive have over the economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    Does that mean that Bush isnt responsible for causing the 'Great Bush Recession?'
    Look at the economy before and after Pelosi/Reid took over Congress. It's not a simple formula, you have to look at what policies they passed and what Bush capitulated to. They raised the minimum wage and Bush capitulated. The result was record unemployment among high school students, single mothers, college students, etc. They refused to address Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae and called Republicans fear mongers and racists for bringing it up, and Bush capitulated. They wrote TARP giving unlimited powers to take over auto industries and limit CEO pay and Bush capitulated and signed it as written. The key isn't just who was President, but how much power that President decided to grab.
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  3. #23
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    Re: What level of influence does a Chief Executive have over the economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Since conservatives believe that government stimulative spending in fact is a drag on the economy, I strongly suspect that you are mirror-imaging.
    Oh Look. Cpwill wrong again (this should surprise absolutely no one ever).

    Unless you want to argue that Reagan was a tried and true liberal when he stimulated the economy with a massive arms build up.
    Or that the All GOP Bush Years was a bunch of liberals in Republican clothing when they engaged in some of the largest government spending binges in US history.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  4. #24
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    Re: What level of influence does a Chief Executive have over the economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    um, yes, actually, we do.
    No, you believe that on the surface but when your own economic interests are threaten, you will spend the bank to prevent your own personal loss.

    However, I find your argument unique. You are suggesting that Republican Congresscritters will nobly do what is right despite the fact that they will be thrown from office for it. Color me suspicious.
    Okay, answer me this. The GOP are willing to produce a recession that will lead to further disapproval and likely end their political careers on the basis of ideological purity even all throughout history they have done the opposite? You are arguing that the GOP will actually do what they believe when it will cost them their jobs.

    You think Austerity works? Go live in Europe. And don't even think about citing Germany. They managed to inflict their pain on others without having to take serious banking losses that would have caused serious economic harm within Germany. And Austerity is killing two responsible governments: Spain and Ireland who had solid financials before the debt crisis.

    that is correct, and along with the attempt to impose amnesty, sparked the Tea Party. Stimulus spending is no longer an acceptable platform for a Republican any more than an individual healthcare mandate. To suggest it is effectively to announce that you are retiring/switching parties.
    And if they actually enact the ****-for-brains Ryan budget, they will be thrown from office. Only a hackjawed partisan idiot would come up with that plan that not only fails to reduce the deficit in any meaningful way (or the debt) but causes a recession at the same time. And on top of that, it doesn't even reign in the fake massive inflation the GOP keeps whining about.

    Implied Assumption is your forte, isn't it?
    Better than citing ****-for-brain studies like you do. Like the kind that argue that the internet, monetary policy, resource finds and other non-fiscal impacts have zero impact on the economy. You remember that completely idiotic study you posted? Right after you claimed that economic data does not exist in a vacuum showing just how hypocritical you really are?

    well we'll see. But I think you are living in a bubble if you think Republicans are going to be able to get away with Stimulus Spending, especially anything larger than that last pile of crap.
    Between losing their jobs and engaging in stimulus, the GOP will go stimulus.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  5. #25
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    Re: What level of influence does a Chief Executive have over the economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Oh Look. Cpwill wrong again (this should surprise absolutely no one ever).
    Rude and unnecessary, but I did get a chuckle out of it.


    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Unless you want to argue that Reagan was a tried and true liberal when he stimulated the economy with a massive arms build up.
    Or that the All GOP Bush Years was a bunch of liberals in Republican clothing when they engaged in some of the largest government spending binges in US history.
    I don't believe that Reagan spending and Bush II spending are necessarily apples-to-apples.

    Reagan's spending at least had some purpose behind it, and that purpose was not liberal in nature. Some have argued here that the Soviet Union and Eastern Bloc would have fallen anyway, and may be true, but is really only conjecture on their part. I tend to believe, yes, it would have eventually fallen, but not nearly as fast. Reagan's spending was not without our own pain, but it was also not without purpose or our own gain.

    On the other hand, as hard as I used to try, I cannot come to the same conclusion regarding Bush II. Just my opinion, but they grossly misinterpreted the successful portions of Reagan's debt spending, ignored the downsides, and acted like a bunch of irresponsible teenagers with a new credit card.

    Another, albeit minor, point is that it is unfair to strictly compare different eras. Some aspects of a wisely run economy will remain true regardless, but each era also has it's own set of nuances that must be included in any hindsight evaluation. Reagan and Bush II were different eras to a great degree, even if the numbers of years separating them weren't that many. In this vein, it would be a mistake to think that today's economic recovery could be strictly modeled after our recovery from the Great Depression.
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  6. #26
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    Re: What level of influence does a Chief Executive have over the economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Unless you want to argue that Reagan was a tried and true liberal when he stimulated the economy with a massive arms build up.
    The issue with this argument is that the massive arms build up was not done for the sole purpose of stimulating the economy. It was done to keep with the USSR who had pulled ahead in the arms race (especially in the nuclear realm) during the Carter years. Sure, the economy was stimulated as a result, but stimulating the economy was not the purpose of the arms build up.
    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Or that the All GOP Bush Years was a bunch of liberals in Republican clothing when they engaged in some of the largest government spending binges in US history.
    IMO, they were a bunch of liberals in Republican clothing. That is why many of them found their seats in the House/Senate under attack after that debacle. I hold them just as responsible for our massive debt, if not more, than the current members of Congress.
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  7. #27
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    Re: What level of influence does a Chief Executive have over the economy?

    I'm no expert by any means, but from what I understand the economy is driven by the market. The fed can do certain things to influence the market (stimulate the economy with tax cuts, ending insider trading, **** like that) but as far as control over the economy, not much to my knowledge. I could be wrong.
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  8. #28
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    Re: What level of influence does a Chief Executive have over the economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Somewhere between 2 and 3. The Federal Government is now 24% of GDP. The guy most responsible for steering that is going to have huge effects. Kandahar, I would say you missed another major point which is agency staffing. The EPA, for example, has an incredible power to depress economic activity. Who the President puts in these places is important.
    More like between 3 and 4.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  9. #29
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    Re: What level of influence does a Chief Executive have over the economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I'm not sure how a wager would work, because as I said, Republicans could always find some lovely euphemism for "stimulus," and/or create some rationale as to why their stimulus was different than Obama's. Such a situation would allow an easy "out," as the party taking the negative side of the bet could always claim it wasn't really a stimulus.
    Simple enough. A program consisting of a large, short term burst of spike in expenditures at the federal level designed specifically to boost demand.

  10. #30
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    Re: What level of influence does a Chief Executive have over the economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    I say a "worship thread". The loser has to post a poll titled "Cpwill/Kandahar is the greatest human being 1) In the last century 2) Ever in America or 3) That I have ever heard of". Then, the loser has to submit support for his choice of one of the three with a 500 word post about how awesome the winner is. I will be the mediator/abitrator in this. Deal?
    I'll take that deal.

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