View Poll Results: Free Trade or Protectionism?

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  • Free Trade

    29 61.70%
  • Protectionism

    18 38.30%
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Thread: "Free Trade" OR "Protectionism"

  1. #81
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    Re: "Free Trade" OR "Protectionism"

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    The ethnocentrism, paternalism, arrogance, and subtle racism in this thread are truly sad. Some people are inclined to view foreigners from developing countries as silly little people who just don't understand what they "should" be earning, so they need some white Americans - in our infinite wisdom of THEIR needs - to stand up for them by making unreasonable demands and putting them out of work.

    If your attitude is "**** them all," as one person in this thread stated, that's one thing. Trade barriers don't benefit us either, but at least that person was being honest about his attitude. Much more annoying are the people who pretend to CARE about living conditions in developing countries, then proceed to advocate policies that hurt them and frame them as victories for the little guy.
    They can earn whatever they want and do whatever they want. It's not my job to bring them better working and environmental conditions. Yet, there is no problem levying against lack of labor and environmental laws when discussing international trade. I think one can make a very reasonable argument as to why foreign country's laws should play some impact on the levies against them.

    If China wants to persist with its near slave labor, lax environmental conditions, and deplorable work conditions; so be it. And if we add a levy to account for that difference, so be it.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  2. #82
    Death2Globalists Matt Foley's Avatar
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    Re: "Free Trade" OR "Protectionism"

    Quote Originally Posted by Hare View Post
    You do realize that a scant 4 years ago we were enjoying a unemployment rate of less than 5 percent correct?
    That unemployment number is useless

    Did the onset of outsourcing and foreign investment somehow coincide with the housing collapse and ensuing recession?
    uh yeah

    Or shall we chalk up your statement to hysterics and misinformation?
    Globalist = Free Trade, Open Borders, Multiculturalist, Anti-White Racist, Hypocrite, Sophist, Deceiver, Manipulator, Warmonger, Vulgar Culture, Morally Depraved......Enemy

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  3. #83
    Death2Globalists Matt Foley's Avatar
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    Re: "Free Trade" OR "Protectionism"

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    "Stolen jobs"? What the hell makes YOU entitled to those jobs more than people anywhere else in the world?
    What makes you entitled to live in the country I live in?
    Globalist = Free Trade, Open Borders, Multiculturalist, Anti-White Racist, Hypocrite, Sophist, Deceiver, Manipulator, Warmonger, Vulgar Culture, Morally Depraved......Enemy

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  4. #84
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    Re: "Free Trade" OR "Protectionism"

    Quote Originally Posted by Hare View Post
    Stolen is a highly subjective term, the truth of the matter is that a large percentage of those positions very likely would be economically unsustainable here stateside. Too many individuals seem to think that corporations invest and build up workforces overseas out of malicious intent or a "lack of patriotism" as some of our more quasi nationalist posters would like to imply, when the truth of the matter is that the profitability and enhanced diplomatic relations (both on economic and geopolitical terms) that stem from overseas investment affect the vast majority of American and foreign "working class" individuals in a overwhelmingly positive manner.

    You do realize that a scant 4 years ago we were enjoying a unemployment rate of less than 5 percent correct? Did the onset of outsourcing and foreign investment somehow coincide with the housing collapse and ensuing recession? Or shall we chalk up your statement to hysterics and misinformation?
    Yes, "stolen" is a highly subjective term. It shouldn't be, but, with so many wingnuts in denial ...

    Any malicious intent or lack of patriotism was likely unconscious and only on the left wing as manifest by the Multi-Cultural Internationalist mindset. The right wing Corporate Global Expansionists were only concerned about increasing profits by decreasing costs .. that's all they were concerned about .. nothing more .. nothing more whatsoever .. .. .

    As to those jobs being unsustainable here, until the MCIs and CGEs are out of power, we'll never really know until we bring them back and see if, on their own, they sink, or swim as they had done for so many years.

    As to "enhanced diplomatic relations", that's kind of like excusing our attack on Iraq in 2003 with "to nation-form a democracy" when we really just wanted to prevent our share of light, sweet Iraqi crude from being diverted to China; it's causally a non-starter.

    As to your question about four years ago a five percent unemployment rate, four years ago the official rate was at 6.1, not 5.8, as there's always more than a month lag in reporting, as most of July 2008's information was not reported until the September 2008 report, but, regardless, the official rate is always considerably understated, considerably.

    Outsourcing ramped up greatly during the early/middle of the past decade, and most of the true un- and under- employment percent reflected sub-primers' jobs in- and out- sourced to wage-slaves. So when owners of sub-primer mortagages saw the handwriting on the wall, they created those infamous securities .. and the rest is history, a Great Recessionary history that simply would not have been given a set stage had the in- and out- source-stealing of American jobs by wage-slaves and their owners never occurred.

    America's time is running out.

    If the jobs do not come back quickly, the continually accumulating dead-weight of increasing scores of millions of Americans without a full-time living wage job will most certainly create the greatest depression.
    You don't trust Trump? Well, there's only one way to leverage him to do what's economically right for us all: Powerful American Political Alliance. Got courage?! .. and a mere $5.00?

  5. #85
    Death2Globalists Matt Foley's Avatar
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    Re: "Free Trade" OR "Protectionism"

    Quote Originally Posted by Hare View Post
    Precisely how would restricting economic relations with said country improve the living conditions of the aforementioned impoverished and underprivileged workforce?
    Why are you globalists hell bent on destroying the living conditions and improverishing the underprivileged American workforce?
    Globalist = Free Trade, Open Borders, Multiculturalist, Anti-White Racist, Hypocrite, Sophist, Deceiver, Manipulator, Warmonger, Vulgar Culture, Morally Depraved......Enemy

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  6. #86
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    Re: "Free Trade" OR "Protectionism"

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Foley View Post
    That unemployment number is useless



    uh yeah
    To you perhaps, but the poster I was replying to was under the impression that outsourcing has somehow destroyed the American economy which is demonstrably false when you take a look at the mid to late 00's.

    Perhaps I wasn't clear enough. Was foreign investment and outsourcing somehow obsolete during the 80's, 90's and 00's when we happened to enjoy a terrific amount of prosperity? Of course not.

  7. #87
    Death2Globalists Matt Foley's Avatar
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    Re: "Free Trade" OR "Protectionism"

    Quote Originally Posted by Hare View Post
    To you perhaps, but the poster I was replying to was under the impression that outsourcing has somehow destroyed the American economy which is demonstrably false when you take a look at the mid to late 00's.
    It's called "delayed effect." Globalist outsourcing (and illegals), has been exponentially increasing since the 1970's; and bubbles pop, they don't go "sssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss". In fact I'm surprised it popped so late in 2009, I would have figured it woulda popped around 2000. Or how about 2002 when we invaded Iraq again.

    Perhaps I wasn't clear enough. Was foreign investment and outsourcing somehow obsolete during the 80's, 90's and 00's when we happened to enjoy a terrific amount of prosperity? Of course not.
    Exponential. The trade deficit is exponential.
    Globalist = Free Trade, Open Borders, Multiculturalist, Anti-White Racist, Hypocrite, Sophist, Deceiver, Manipulator, Warmonger, Vulgar Culture, Morally Depraved......Enemy

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  8. #88
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    Re: "Free Trade" OR "Protectionism"

    Quote Originally Posted by Ontologuy View Post
    Yes, "stolen" is a highly subjective term. It shouldn't be, but, with so many wingnuts in denial ...

    Any malicious intent or lack of patriotism was likely unconscious and only on the left wing as manifest by the Multi-Cultural Internationalist mindset. The right wing Corporate Global Expansionists were only concerned about increasing profits by decreasing costs .. that's all they were concerned about .. nothing more .. nothing more whatsoever .. .. .

    As to those jobs being unsustainable here, until the MCIs and CGEs are out of power, we'll never really know until we bring them back and see if, on their own, they sink, or swim as they had done for so many years.

    As to "enhanced diplomatic relations", that's kind of like excusing our attack on Iraq in 2003 with "to nation-form a democracy" when we really just wanted to prevent our share of light, sweet Iraqi crude from being diverted to China; it's causally a non-starter.

    As to your question about four years ago a five percent unemployment rate, four years ago the official rate was at 6.1, not 5.8, as there's always more than a month lag in reporting, as most of July 2008's information was not reported until the September 2008 report, but, regardless, the official rate is always considerably understated, considerably.

    Outsourcing ramped up greatly during the early/middle of the past decade, and most of the true un- and under- employment percent reflected sub-primers' jobs in- and out- sourced to wage-slaves.

    So when owners of sub-primer mortagages saw the handwriting on the wall, they created those infamous securities .. and the rest is history, a Great Recessionary history that simply would not have been given a set stage had the in- and out- source-stealing of American jobs by wage-slaves and their owners never occurred.

    America's time is running out. If the jobs do not come back quickly, the continually accumulating dead-weight of increasing scores of millions of Americans without a full-time living wage job will most certainly create the greatest depression.
    Wingnuts?

    Yes, Profit margins are quite important in the business realm. They allow for expansion and retainment of current employees as well.

    Terrible analogy, you're completely ignoring the numerous and important allies earned in no small part through economic diplomacy.

    Make that 5 years. My sincerest apologies. The question stands though, was foreign investment and outsourcing somehow obsolete during recent decades?

    Outsourcing did increase greatly in the 00's, but you're conveniently ignoring the fact that the U.S. economy and labor market were operating at near normal capacity for the vast majority of that period.

    Blaming outsourcing for the Mortgage crisis? That's a new one. I wouldn't stick with it though, given the complete lack of supporting evidence.

    Anything else from the Astrology section catch your eye? Stock picks perhaps?
    Last edited by a351; 07-03-12 at 08:33 PM.

  9. #89
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    Re: "Free Trade" OR "Protectionism"

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Foley View Post
    It's called "delayed effect." Globalist outsourcing (and illegals), has been exponentially increasing since the 1970's; and bubbles pop, they don't go "sssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss". In fact I'm surprised it popped so late in 2009, I would have figured it woulda popped around 2000. Or how about 2002 when we invaded Iraq again.



    Exponential. The trade deficit is exponential.
    2008 would be the correct date, not 2009. Unfortunately, that's the only part of your post that could even be mistaken as accurate in any manner.

  10. #90
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    Re: "Free Trade" OR "Protectionism"

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Sorry but this is bull****. It isn't realistic to expect a factory in Indonesia to pay US wages and follow US labor laws. Those things are luxuries for rich countries. When people say that "We'll trade with you as long as you [insert some unrealistic condition here]", it's really just a PC way of saying "We don't want to trade with you."
    It is unrealistic to expect third world countries to pay US wages and follow US labor laws. It is just as unrealistic to expect companies to pay US wages and follow US labor laws if they can avoid it by outsourcing to third world countries. It is further unrealistic to expect that the majority of American citizens can earn a decent living in a global labor market that puts them in direct competition with third world workers. And it is ultimately unrealistic to expect that the American government can continue to provide social services for the increasing numbers of underemployed while its tax base continues to erode.

    Putting tariffs on goods and services produced in countries that do not pay US wages or follow US labor laws seems to me the only realistic alternative.

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