View Poll Results: Free Trade or Protectionism?

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  • Free Trade

    29 61.70%
  • Protectionism

    18 38.30%
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Thread: "Free Trade" OR "Protectionism"

  1. #31
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    Re: "Free Trade" OR "Protectionism"

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    China is a country of 1.3 billion people.It will be a long long long time before the demand for labor far exceeds the supply.
    Wages have already risen dramatically in China. Hundreds of millions of people have been lifted out of poverty in the last 30 years, mostly due to China opening up its economy and trading with the rest of the world.

    And when it does those companies will pack their **** up and outsource to countries where they can still pay **** wages and exploit the fact there is little to no worker and environmental protection laws.
    Good. Then those countries can be lifted out of poverty too.

    Companies don't outsource to uplift other nations. They outsource in order to exploit the fact they can a worker next to nothing and not have to worry about any environmental and worker safety regulations.
    It doesn't matter why companies do it, the end result is positive. Higher wages in the exporting country, lower prices and more purchasing power in the importing country.

    You know what's a good way of getting other countries to enforce environmental protections, worker safety regulations, and other luxuries of rich countries? Turn them into a rich country too. You know what's NOT a good way of getting them to do those things? Keeping them poor by refusing to trade with them.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 07-02-12 at 12:58 PM.
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    Re: "Free Trade" OR "Protectionism"

    I am for free trade INSIDE our national borders and Protectionism at worst and Isolationism at best when dealing with trade outside of our borders.

  3. #33
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    Re: "Free Trade" OR "Protectionism"

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    It doesn't matter why companies do it, the end result is positive. Higher wages in the exporting country, lower prices and more purchasing power in the importing country.
    It's only positive for the workers in the country that work has been outsourced to. 5,000 jobs in China or India probably means 3,500 less jobs here in the USA. THAT is my biggest problem with all of this.

  4. #34
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    Re: "Free Trade" OR "Protectionism"

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    I am for free trade INSIDE our national borders and Protectionism at worst and Isolationism at best when dealing with trade outside of our borders.
    That's never been the way things were done here. Even back to colonial times, the primary purpose of the Colonies was to increase revenue for English companies. Things like tobacco would come to England, who would then sell it all over Europe.


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    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    Re: "Free Trade" OR "Protectionism"

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    That's never been the way things were done here. Even back to colonial times, the primary purpose of the Colonies was to increase revenue for English companies. Things like tobacco would come to England, who would then sell it all over Europe.
    Did I say that it ever was. I am simply pointing out the way I believe it SHOULD be. Nothing more. We are no longer a British colony. We no longer need anything from Great Britian, or anywhere else.

  6. #36
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    Re: "Free Trade" OR "Protectionism"

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    It's only positive for the workers in the country that work has been outsourced to. 5,000 jobs in China or India probably means 3,500 less jobs here in the USA. THAT is my biggest problem with all of this.
    That's not true at all. There aren't a fixed amount of jobs. First of all, free trade means that Americans have access to cheaper products and more purchasing power than they otherwise would. This, in turn, puts more money and their pockets, which gives customers more cash to spend and businesses more capital to invest. For every job that the US loses in an industry where it isn't competitive (e.g. call centers), it more than makes up the loss through the increased purchasing power and from investments in industries where it *is* competitive (e.g. product research/development).
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    Re: "Free Trade" OR "Protectionism"

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    That's not true at all. There aren't a fixed amount of jobs. First of all, free trade means that Americans have access to cheaper products and more purchasing power than they otherwise would. This, in turn, puts more money and their pockets, which gives customers more cash to spend and businesses more capital to invest. For every job that the US loses in an industry where it isn't competitive (e.g. call centers), it more than makes up the loss through the increased purchasing power and from investments in industries where it *is* competitive (e.g. product research/development).
    Please explain to me how the roughly 750 call center and IS/IT people my company has laid off in the last 9 months are going to be purchasing ANYTHING when they don't have an income? It doesn't matter whether the item costs $79.95 or $19.95 when all you have is $1.95 in your pocket.

  8. #38
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    Re: "Free Trade" OR "Protectionism"

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    Please explain to me how the roughly 750 call center and IS/IT people my company has laid off in the last 9 months are going to be purchasing ANYTHING when they don't have an income? It doesn't matter whether the item costs $79.95 or $19.95 when all you have is $1.95 in your pocket.
    The money that American consumers and businesses save on call center costs by outsourcing the work to India will put more cash in their pockets. This, in turn, will enable them to buy more products and spend more capital on PRODUCTIVE lines of business.
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    Re: "Free Trade" OR "Protectionism"

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    The money that American consumers and businesses save on call center costs by outsourcing the work to India will put more cash in their pockets. This, in turn, will enable them to buy more products and spend more capital on PRODUCTIVE lines of business.
    You have still avoided the main point of my comment. Let me see if I can re-phrase it in a way that you'll understand.....

    When YOU lose YOUR job to oursourcing, what are YOU going to use to purchase all of those less expensive products, Kandahar?

    The cost of a product is immaterial when you don't have the money to buy it, regardless of how expensive or cheap it is. 5,000 jobs going overseas in our current economy likely means a whole lot more mouths to feed from the Goverment trough. Thoste 5,000 people are not just walking in somewhere else and getting jobs the next day. They're out of work. What is your plan for THEM?

  10. #40
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    Re: "Free Trade" OR "Protectionism"

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Wages have already risen dramatically in China. Hundreds of millions of people have been lifted out of poverty in the last 30 years, mostly due to China opening up its economy and trading with the rest of the world.
    Are any of those people working for outsourced factories? I serious doubt seeing how wages are 23-37 cents an hour for a worker working in a outsourced factory.


    It doesn't matter why companies do it, the end result is positive. Higher wages in the exporting country, lower prices and more purchasing power in the importing country.
    Lower prices are not good if you lose your job to outsourcing and as a result have to take a lower paying job.Because poor people in the US will still buy used,stuff on layaway and rent to own. So the idea that the end result is positive is totally absurd.

    You know what's a good way of getting other countries to enforce environmental protections, worker safety regulations, and other luxuries of rich countries? Turn them into a rich country too. You know what's NOT a good way of getting them to do those things? Keeping them poor by refusing to trade with them.
    Again China is a country of 1.3 billion people. They will not have any reason to raise the wages of factory workers or to improve worker safety and environmental laws.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

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