View Poll Results: Free Trade or Protectionism?

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  • Free Trade

    29 61.70%
  • Protectionism

    18 38.30%
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Thread: "Free Trade" OR "Protectionism"

  1. #11
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    Re: "Free Trade" OR "Protectionism"

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Protectionism and fair trade.
    Saves american jobs,
    Even if that were true, why should I care about "saving American jobs"? What about Chinese and Indian and Indonesian and Brazilian and South African jobs?

    and is a more fair just system.
    One of my biggest pet peeves is when people defend the wealthy special interests of the entrenched status quo, at the expense of people who are much poorer, and then try to frame it as a victory for the little guy.
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    Re: "Free Trade" OR "Protectionism"

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Sorry but this is bull****. It isn't realistic to expect a factory in Indonesia to pay US wages and follow US labor laws. Those things are luxuries for rich countries. When people say that "We'll trade with you as long as you [insert some unrealistic condition here]", it's really just a PC way of saying "We don't want to trade with you."
    The only reason U.S. companies are manufacturing in those countries in the first place is because it's cheap. Their dollar goes farther. That means more money at the bottom line. That means it's more profitable to move operations off-shore and harm American workers. The whole point was to bring up other nations to our level, instead we're reducing ourselves to their level. Every job that goes overseas harms us.

    There's nothing unrealistic about recognizing the facts and acting accordingly.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: "Free Trade" OR "Protectionism"

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    What about Chinese and Indian and Indonesian and Brazilian and South African jobs?
    F*** the Chinese, Indian, Indonesian, Brazilian and South Africans. That's their people's problem, their government's problem and their businesses problem.

    Not ours.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  4. #14
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    Re: "Free Trade" OR "Protectionism"

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Most definitely free trade. It's the single greatest driver of the American economy (and the global economy), and it greatly increases the purchasing power of all nations that participate. Protectionism makes ALL countries involved worse off.

    If some nations are better at producing widgets and other nations are better at producing gizmos, so be it. It makes no sense to implement barriers to trade just to protect some unproductive widget factories in the gizmo-producing country. The gains to purchasing power will make up for the lost jobs many times over.
    What that guy said. Trade wars are wars that governments wage against their own people.

  5. #15
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    Re: "Free Trade" OR "Protectionism"

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    The only reason U.S. companies are manufacturing in those countries in the first place is because it's cheap.
    True. So what?

    Their dollar goes farther.
    That's absolutely right. If someone in Indonesia is willing to work at a factory for $5 a day, it's because he considers that a good wage. It's paternalistic and ignorant to assume that YOU know the proper wage for which he "should" work.

    That means more money at the bottom line.
    It also means cheaper products to the end consumer, which increases the purchasing power of the nation which imports the product.

    That means it's more profitable to move operations off-shore and harm American workers. The whole point was to bring up other nations to our level, instead we're reducing ourselves to their level. Every job that goes overseas harms us.
    Neither economic theory nor historical reality support this argument. As the economy has globalized, more and more nations are becoming wealthy. Last year the UN's Human Development Index recorded a year-on-year improvement in economic wellbeing in 171 of 183 countries. And this wasn't just a one-year fluke, this has been the trend for a long time.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 07-01-12 at 12:19 AM.
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    Re: "Free Trade" OR "Protectionism"

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    F*** the Chinese, Indian, Indonesian, Brazilian and South Africans. That's their people's problem, their government's problem and their businesses problem.

    Not ours.
    It *is* my problem if you tell me that I can't trade with them. It's one thing to be opposed to foreign aid, it's quite another to support beggar-thy-neighbor policies (especially when they don't even work). Does your lack of ethics extend to people in THIS country too? "It's true that my neighbor would probably be better off if I didn't dump toxic waste in his lawn...but **** him, that's his problem, not mine."
    Last edited by Kandahar; 07-01-12 at 12:21 AM.
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  7. #17
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    Re: "Free Trade" OR "Protectionism"

    Also I'd like to point out that in the last 50 years, far more American jobs have been "lost" to robots than to Chinese or Indians or Mexicans or anyone else. Yet there aren't many luddites arguing that we should ban technological progress and go back to 1950s-style assembly lines. Society has been perfectly willing to trade a few jobs in unproductive sectors, in exchange for cheaper products and more jobs in productive sectors. The fact that people are OK with making this trade when the new worker is a robot, but not when it's a Chinese person, is both cruel and xenophobic.
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  8. #18
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    Re: "Free Trade" OR "Protectionism"

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Even if that were true, why should I care about "saving American jobs"? What about Chinese and Indian and Indonesian and Brazilian and South African jobs?

    One of my biggest pet peeves is when people defend the wealthy special interests of the entrenched status quo, at the expense of people who are much poorer, and then try to frame it as a victory for the little guy.
    Didn't you get the memo?
    Only American poor people are worthy of consideration.
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    Re: "Free Trade" OR "Protectionism"

    Free trade, historically the benefits have vastly outweighed the dubiously dubbed ill-effects. Economic protectionism stifles innovation, expansion, modernization, and standard of living conditions as a whole, while simultaneously driving up the price of consumer goods at the local level. Hard to believe that the protectionist mindset has managed to survive throughout the decades, given the historical and factual success of free trade that is so readily available to even the most casual of observers.

  10. #20
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    Re: "Free Trade" OR "Protectionism"

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    F*** the Chinese, Indian, Indonesian, Brazilian and South Africans. That's their people's problem, their government's problem and their businesses problem.

    Not ours.
    Without the utilization of international trade, those countries would be neither capable nor willing to purchase US products and debt alike. Lacking a stable and sizable consumer base outside of our immediate borders would be a significant problem for all parties involved.

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