View Poll Results: Free Trade or Protectionism?

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  • Free Trade

    29 61.70%
  • Protectionism

    18 38.30%
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Thread: "Free Trade" OR "Protectionism"

  1. #141
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    Re: "Free Trade" OR "Protectionism"

    no vote !
    We need a balance, a compromise between the two to benefit our nation, NOT just the wealthy, but the middle class.

  2. #142
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    Re: "Free Trade" OR "Protectionism"

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    That is incorrect. Cheaper production lowers the cost of living helping consumers, and most helping those who consume the largest portion of their income (the poor). By lowering the cost of living, consumers have increased disposable wealth, which leads to increased job formation. Those who claim that trade decreases wealth are forgetting the forest for the fallen tree.



    it's just worth pointing out that your proposed solution actually ****s over the people you claim to want to help.
    In that extremely narrow perspective, you are ONLY looking at people as consumers and not as full persons who must also earn a living so that they can then take that money and buy what they need. Yes, outsourcing manufacturing and using child labor in third world nations gives us cheaper toilet paper and toothpaste. And most folks like cheaper items at the store. But when doing so takes away jobs from Americans which would be paying them higher wages with good benefits and other fringes, the entire package is NOT a good bargain for working class people in America.
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    Re: "Free Trade" OR "Protectionism"

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    That is incorrect. Cheaper production lowers the cost of living helping consumers, and most helping those who consume the largest portion of their income (the poor). By lowering the cost of living, consumers have increased disposable wealth, which leads to increased job formation. Those who claim that trade decreases wealth are forgetting the forest for the fallen tree.



    it's just worth pointing out that your proposed solution actually ****s over the people you claim to want to help.
    I don't care about the poor either way. What I do care about is bringing production and industry back into the United States.
    I love the NSA. It's like having a secret fan-base you will never see, but they're there, watching everything you write and it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that I may be some person's only form of unconstitutional entertainment one night.

  4. #144
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    Re: "Free Trade" OR "Protectionism"

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Considering the wages Chinese workers make.23-37 cents an hour.....

    Which means the typical American blue collar worker is grossly overpaid.

  5. #145
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    Re: "Free Trade" OR "Protectionism"

    Quote Originally Posted by johnny_rebson View Post
    Which means the typical American blue collar worker is grossly overpaid.
    Providing you send them to China.
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  6. #146
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    Re: "Free Trade" OR "Protectionism"

    Interesting to see 'conservatives' who hate government intervention in so many areas but want the Gubmint who can't get anything right to step in and run the private sector economy and it just isn't Healthcare but major sectors of what is left of our industries. Throw free market and the invisible hand under the bus. Cast aside the Captains of Industry- our semi-sacred Job Creators (hallowed be thy name)

    Cursing Unions for making US workers cost 'too much',(never mind Unions are so small a part of our workforce), then cursing the Chinee for working for 20 some cents an hour.

    Why does it always have to be one extreme or the other? Never a compromise, never a blend. We seem locked into a system where we vote and run to one side of the boat and then frantically to the otherside. We can't set a middle course bearing because if we were paying attention it is the straight line and far more efficient than building and then tearing down one economic/political house of cards and then another.

    China, India and whoever else gets their economic act together will rise, there is nothing to say their rate of growth has to be as fast as possible( Ummmm didn't we learn anything by our cycles of boom and bust? Can't an aircraft stall if it's angle of attack to too great?)

    Labor intensive industry is best suited for nations where labor is cheap, but when it comes to call centers and outsourcing some of the more technical side of industry not every US company is happy with India. My wife is starting a 5 year project because an insurance company isn't happy with the product coming from an Indian based company. Some folks learn the stove is hot if you tell them and some have to touch the stove a few times...

    Perhaps the much maligned Gubmint can help tamp down the economic upheaval as our nation stops being a industry heavy one to a service and financial one.

    It is very interesting a protected service as our energy system has finally felt a bit of the pain the private sector, to include Union staffed ones, have for years. I guess the water is getting high enough to touch some more nuts! It's viva the free market until the pink slips start flowing at MY place of emplyment!

    My cousin works for a semi major electric provider in Northern Oklahoma, he often tells his co-workers they should thank the Gods their industry is so regulated, heaven help them if it wasn't, they don't know what hard work is, but they just might find out!

    I remember when railroad train crews went from 4 men to 3 and then down to 2. The George Jetson progress we thought would be so wonderful has an ugly side, we don't need so many people in the workforce. Where will they work? Just what 'industry' will the Gubmint create to absorb the surplus workers? Spoons for everyone?

    We laughed long and hard at the 'make work' factories of the old Soviet Union, but it seems that is just what some would have us do, seal ourselves off behind an Iron Curtain with a closed economic loop. It didn't work for them and it won't work for us.

    OIL- drill baby drill wouldn't create an extra day's worth. The much scoffed at solar and wind power?

    We import wheat, lumber, aluminum, canola oil, and electricity from Canada alone!

    Somewhere there is a balance between the 'hard working Americans' you know personally and those overpaid lazy bastards you don't.

    Between a healthy economy and one that makes work even if ineffective.

    Between a Gubmint/industry coop and a cabal...

  7. #147
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    Re: "Free Trade" OR "Protectionism"

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    In that extremely narrow perspective, you are ONLY looking at people as consumers and not as full persons who must also earn a living so that they can then take that money and buy what they need.
    That is incorrect - the increase in productivity that comes with trade is an employment boon.

    Yes, outsourcing manufacturing and using child labor in third world nations gives us cheaper toilet paper and toothpaste. And most folks like cheaper items at the store. But when doing so takes away jobs from Americans which would be paying them higher wages with good benefits and other fringes, the entire package is NOT a good bargain for working class people in America.
    That is incorrect as well. We become wealthier when we trade with each other, just as you are wealthier because you do not grow all your own food.

  8. #148
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    Re: "Free Trade" OR "Protectionism"

    Quote Originally Posted by Lokiate View Post
    I don't care about the poor either way. What I do care about is bringing production and industry back into the United States.

    It never left. U.S. Manufacturing Remains World’s Largest


    There is no better reason for us to be an economy that produces our own toothpaste than there is for you to be a person who makes his own auto tires. If that's our strength, great. If not, we should maximize our productive strengths.

  9. #149
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    Re: "Free Trade" OR "Protectionism"

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    It never left. U.S. Manufacturing Remains World’s Largest


    There is no better reason for us to be an economy that produces our own toothpaste than there is for you to be a person who makes his own auto tires. If that's our strength, great. If not, we should maximize our productive strengths.


    The growth of U.S. trade with China since China entered the World Trade Organization in 2001 has had a devastating effect on U.S. workers and the domestic economy. Between 2001 and 2007 2.3 million jobs were lost or displaced, including 366,000 in 2007 alone. New demographic research shows that, even when re-employed in non-traded industries, the 2.3 million workers displaced by the increase in China trade deficits in this period have lost an average $8,146 per worker/year. In 2007, these losses totalled $19.4 billion.1

    The impacts of the China trade deficit are not limited to its direct effects on the jobs and wages of those displaced. It is also critical to recognize that the indirect impact of trade on other workers is significant as well. Trade with less-developed countries has reduced the bargaining power of all workers in the U.S. economy who resemble the import-displaced in terms of education, credentials, and skills. Annual earnings for all workers without a four-year college degree are roughly $1,400 lower today because of this competition, and this group constitutes a large majority of the entire U.S. workforce (roughly 100 million workers or about 70% of all workers, Bivens (2008a)). China, with nearly 40% of our non-oil imports from less-developed countries, is a chief contributor to this wage pressure.


    The China trade toll: Widespread wage suppression, 2 million jobs lost in the U.S. | Economic Policy Institute

  10. #150
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    Re: "Free Trade" OR "Protectionism"

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    It never left. U.S. Manufacturing Remains World’s Largest


    There is no better reason for us to be an economy that produces our own toothpaste than there is for you to be a person who makes his own auto tires. If that's our strength, great. If not, we should maximize our productive strengths.
    Not only does the US lead the industrialized world in manufacturing, the cause of the slight dip in stateside manufacturing has been grossly misrepresented. Also, manufacturing output is increasing at a steady rate, while employment in mentioned fields is shrinking at a faster pace in dreaded China than here stateside (China lost approximately 15 million manufacturing positions between 1995 and 2002). It seems apparent that the real culprit for the widespread loss in manufacturing related employment would be technology and efficiency, not a seemingly sudden deficit in patriotism, yet a large amount of Americans are apparently in denial about the bleak prospects of manufacturing accounting for a significant percentage of the total work force in the foreseeable future.

    That Giant Sucking Sound of Manufacturing Jobs Going to China - Forbes
    Last edited by a351; 07-09-12 at 12:06 AM.

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