View Poll Results: Free Trade or Protectionism?

Voters
47. You may not vote on this poll
  • Free Trade

    29 61.70%
  • Protectionism

    18 38.30%
Page 12 of 17 FirstFirst ... 21011121314 ... LastLast
Results 111 to 120 of 162

Thread: "Free Trade" OR "Protectionism"

  1. #111
    Advisor jpevans's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Last Seen
    10-17-12 @ 05:37 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    338

    Re: "Free Trade" OR "Protectionism"


    I have never been off the North American continent & it has been my main concern is to stop the bleeding of U.S. jobs overseas. It is not as if these countries a picking themselves up by their bootstraps, it is American business that is taking these U.S. jobs over seas.
    I watched in the '50's & "60's as New England Knitting Mills, paper mills etc relocated to the south, later to relocate south of the border, from their around the world, none of this was done to improve living conditions in the places that they moved it was about their worker geting too uppity & demanding (not begging) things like a living wage, holidays whatever.
    So don't try to BS the folks here that you are an advocate for foreign workers, your being (used or bought) by businesspeople who would take jobs from Americans & look to exploit workers.
    When their own country developes a surplus of goods, having satisfied there own needs then they are ready to export. If they are unable to buy what they make, then they are just tools.
    There was an old saying while building the Mississippi Leeves, which stuck with me, from Allen Lomax tapes in the Liburay og Congress.
    "Kill a mule, Buy another mue, kill a N-word, get another N-word." This seems to be the industry standard in China, minus N-word.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hare View Post
    Precisely how would restricting economic relations with said country improve the living conditions of the aforementioned impoverished and underprivileged workforce? Improving the living conditions and economic stability of said country can be accomplished quite effectively through economic diplomacy. South East Asia is living proof of this particular phenomena.

    I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now. Bob Dylan

  2. #112
    Revolutionary
    TNAR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Last Seen
    02-05-17 @ 01:17 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    2,018
    Blog Entries
    17

    Re: "Free Trade" OR "Protectionism"

    Quote Originally Posted by jpevans
    That they earn enough to buy what they make, with out lead paint, radiation, leaking cancer causing agents into the sky or their own bodies etc. ... "Have people absolutely no idea that th history of "free market" which the tea Party is so fond of touting, ... If left to themselves, the invisible hand squeezes labor out of workers for as little as possible & even nothing.
    For the record, your font is annoying.

    Your personal claim about alleged dangers ignores the fact that every so-called "advanced" nation went through this stage prior to being where they are today. The U.S. oil industry used to dump leftover byproducts from gasoline refinement directly into rivers until someone discovered a use for them. Do you expect every lagging nation to jump directly from the pitiable condition they currently exist to a full-fledged first world nation? Or perhaps you don't want other nations to succeed?

    The letter you quoted exhibits the same ignorance of fact which she claims to abhor. Every evil she mentioned is the result of protectionist government regulation, not the free market. Free markets require high quality goods at reasonable prices or consumers will simply not purchase them. On the same token, free markets require safe work environments at reasonable salaries for workers or they will simply quit and move to a different employer who does provide these conditions. In the free market, businesses do not get subsidies and bailouts when they do not provide acceptable goods to consumers. This means that a business must hire competent and satisfied workers in order to produce a high quality good for a consumer who will voluntarily purchase these goods. There simply is no other method for producing equality and freedom to this extent. The fears in this letter are simply that, fear-mongering.

  3. #113
    Revolutionary
    TNAR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Last Seen
    02-05-17 @ 01:17 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    2,018
    Blog Entries
    17

    Re: "Free Trade" OR "Protectionism"

    Quote Originally Posted by jpevans
    ...your being (used or bought) by businesspeople who would take jobs from Americans & look to exploit workers.
    Let's ignore everything else for a moment and assume you are 100% correct. Let us presume that U.S. businesses are moving overseas for the sole reasons to stick it to American workers and take advantage of stupid foreigners who have to beg for work.

    So the greedy Acme Corp sells widgets for $10 and moves their production facility over to Poornation. Let's say the labor costs drop from $15 per hour to $0.15 per hour. Obviously Acme is greedy so they won't lower their prices so the widgets are still $10 apiece. The problem comes when we consider the fact that there are now a bunch of unemployed former Acme workers who have no money to purchase these widgets.

    If we apply this scenario across the various industries ("...it has been my main concern is to stop the bleeding of U.S. jobs overseas.") then we are forced with the realization that the consumer base will be greatly reduced, thus reducing the numbers of widgets that all of these displaced companies can now successfully sell.

    As a result, your philosophy (which is shared by many) winds up paradoxical. A company relocates overseas because they are greedy, but will end up being unable to sell as many products which is in direct conflict with their greed.

    So you tell me, why would companies move overseas if this would simply result in a reduction in their consumer base?

  4. #114
    Advisor jpevans's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Last Seen
    10-17-12 @ 05:37 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    338

    Re: "Free Trade" OR "Protectionism"


    There is a difference between an American company who moves maufacturing to a foreign country, to export a product back to the U.S. of A. & a company who builds a factory in the country where they intend to sell the product.
    I don't mind building an I-phone factory in China to serve Chinese customers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    There is always so much cry over outsourcing that people forget about the flip side of the coin: insourcing. Plenty of other companies in foreign countries are outsourcing jobs to the United States. These companies include Toyota (in fact, many car companies), Nesle, and many others.

    Insourcing Facts

    Nearly 5% of private sector employment is by a foreign company.

    I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now. Bob Dylan

  5. #115
    #NeverTrump
    a351's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Space Coast
    Last Seen
    09-09-17 @ 08:54 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    6,902

    Re: "Free Trade" OR "Protectionism"

    Quote Originally Posted by Ontologuy View Post
    Other than of having an economic agenda, that's painfully obvious.



    Yes, many of them are merely machines, making decisions for us spare parts.

    We human beings are completely without a say in the matter whatsoever.

    You're happy with that?



    Even the lowest price is too high for the unemployed.

    Get everyone employed again, and then wage-earners will tell the market how high it can set the prices.

    Until then we have too many have-nots.

    And again, what's with the polemic dualism extremism tendency of yours -- "Darwinian free"? You must be a winger .. that "centrist" label can't be right.

    I said "less", not "free".

    Regardless, your conclusion still remains presumptive and questionable.



    Actually it was spot on, as it was based on the meaningful facts that analogously presented the truth of the matter.

    Your turn.



    No.

    No purposeful omission, just a focus on sub-primers who really didn't exist much before the 1990's.

    But the 1990's did bring us NAFTA. Even liberals like Pres. Clinton screwed the pooch on that one .. but, then again, Multi-Cultural Internationalists are all for the in- and out- sourcing of American jobs, and Clinton, at heart, is indeed that.

    The vast majority of American unemployment since the Reagan corporate socialist movement can be attributed to in- and out- sourcing American jobs to wage-slaves.



    Again with the extremist polarizing hyperbole.

    If it's to be sold in America and can be made in America and was made in America, yeah, it should continue to be made by Americans.

    That's simply normal, balanced thinking.

    When those jobs are stolen by wage slaves and their owners, it is simply that: theft of an entitlement of American citizenship.

    Only wingnuts deny the reality of it.




    Your phrase here is meaningless extreme jargon, a euphemism for condoning wage-slave labor at the expense of American jobs.

    You argue so in favor of such egregious behavior, I can't help but wonder if you're profiting by it, by the suffering of your fellow Americans.

    It is simply the creation of a false dichotomy to say that we can't employ all Americans without harming the economy, though, true, that might result in some loss of obscene profits of the rabid dog-eating dogs.



    Or, as your nebulous meaningless statement here void of specific details truly reveals ..



    .. It was indeed all about the sub-prime securities fiasco directly precipitated by the en masse loss of sub-primers jobs in the ramping up of extreme Darwinian competition embodied in in- and out- sourcing of their jobs that caused these sub-primers to default on their mortgages, mortgages that were deceiptfully packaged in "securities" and sold about here and in Europe, the first wave of revealed worthlessness occurring in August-September 2008, exemplifying The Great Recession.

    What's foolish is to ignore the reality of that just because one has a profit-making agenda vested interest in continuing to have their fellow Americans' jobs stolen from them via in- and out-sourcing to wage-slaves.
    Economic agenda? Well, I suppose you could construe my support of free trade strictly due to the wildly successful track record of said policies as an "agenda."

    Not much us "spare parts" can do about it. These occurrences are hardly sinister, they're simply a natural product of our current environment.

    Get everyone employed again? Fantastic idea I must say, write your local congressman/woman at once with this savory bit of policy genius! Hate to break it to you bud, but American citizens simply aren't entitled to meaningful employment or employment in general for that matter.

    As you pointed out the 1990's was a terrific period for free trade in general, and Clinton was instrumental in tearing down blockades that had been in place for many years. The 90's also happened to be the zenith of American economic success, due in no small part to a technological outburst coupled with the substantial increase in potential consumer bases outside of our own borders.

    It is hardly jargon, it's simply an acknowledgement of reality.

    I stand corrected. The diplomatic relationships forged with Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Brazil, Germany. etc. etc. are directly comparable to our intervention in Iraq for selfish reasons. Spot on. Spot on.

    Anything meaningful to add?

    Yes, but outsourcing hardly completes the entire equation on it's lonesome. Check out the personal savings rate for the same time period. It demonstrates quite nicely that a massive amount of individuals were financially irresponsible regardless of their employment situation. It's not hard to deduce from this graph that despite normal employment conditions, the spending rates for individuals coupled with the drastic spike in real estate prices over the same era would account for quite a sizable chunk of the aforementioned sub prime mortgages.

    "Free Trade" OR "Protectionism"-personal-savings-rate-jpg
    Last edited by a351; 07-04-12 at 10:18 AM.

  6. #116
    Death2Globalists Matt Foley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    ExecuteTheTraitors
    Last Seen
    11-24-12 @ 12:17 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    5,574

    Re: "Free Trade" OR "Protectionism"

    Quote Originally Posted by Hare View Post
    "Free Trade" OR "Protectionism"-personal-savings-rate-jpg
    This is the primary "delayed effect", people spent their savings after they lost their jobs. See how proportional it is to the trade deficit?

    I'm talking to a wall again.

    BTW that jump in 2010 data is poisoned by the extremely rich getting hundreds of billions in bailout money. Redo that graph without the poisoning the data with rich savings.

    In fact I'd guess most of those spikes in the graph is rich-bastard money being sent to and fro.
    Globalist = Free Trade, Open Borders, Multiculturalist, Anti-White Racist, Hypocrite, Sophist, Deceiver, Manipulator, Warmonger, Vulgar Culture, Morally Depraved......Enemy

    Death to Globalists

  7. #117
    Death2Globalists Matt Foley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    ExecuteTheTraitors
    Last Seen
    11-24-12 @ 12:17 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    5,574

    Re: "Free Trade" OR "Protectionism"

    Quote Originally Posted by jpevans View Post

    There is a difference between an American company who moves maufacturing to a foreign country, to export a product back to the U.S. of A. & a company who builds a factory in the country where they intend to sell the product.
    I don't mind building an I-phone factory in China to serve Chinese customers.
    You should mind, they are an Authoritarian regime, you really don't want authoritarian regimes to be technologically advanced; especially ones that hold grudges against Caucasians for imposing unfair treaties on them at the turn of the last century. Yeah, it's bad mmmkay.
    Last edited by Matt Foley; 07-04-12 at 10:28 AM.
    Globalist = Free Trade, Open Borders, Multiculturalist, Anti-White Racist, Hypocrite, Sophist, Deceiver, Manipulator, Warmonger, Vulgar Culture, Morally Depraved......Enemy

    Death to Globalists

  8. #118
    Death2Globalists Matt Foley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    ExecuteTheTraitors
    Last Seen
    11-24-12 @ 12:17 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    5,574

    Re: "Free Trade" OR "Protectionism"

    Quote Originally Posted by TNAR View Post
    Let's ignore everything else for a moment and assume you are 100% correct. Let us presume that U.S. businesses are moving overseas for the sole reasons to stick it to American workers and take advantage of stupid foreigners who have to beg for work.

    So the greedy Acme Corp sells widgets for $10 and moves their production facility over to Poornation. Let's say the labor costs drop from $15 per hour to $0.15 per hour. Obviously Acme is greedy so they won't lower their prices so the widgets are still $10 apiece. The problem comes when we consider the fact that there are now a bunch of unemployed former Acme workers who have no money to purchase these widgets.

    If we apply this scenario across the various industries ("...it has been my main concern is to stop the bleeding of U.S. jobs overseas.") then we are forced with the realization that the consumer base will be greatly reduced, thus reducing the numbers of widgets that all of these displaced companies can now successfully sell.

    As a result, your philosophy (which is shared by many) winds up paradoxical. A company relocates overseas because they are greedy, but will end up being unable to sell as many products which is in direct conflict with their greed.

    So you tell me, why would companies move overseas if this would simply result in a reduction in their consumer base?
    Short-Medium term gains.

    Usually I'd say short term gains, but the constant borrowing extends this time frame; so I'm going to throw the word medium into there.

    It's not paradoxical, it's exactly what is happening. You summarized what's going on nicely. Well done.

    Also companies that don't move overseas lose competitiveness and go out of business anyways. It's the same reason unscrupulous plantation owners forced every other plantation to use slaves. If they didn't use slaves they went out of business. All it takes is one business to exploit cheap foreign labor, everyone else follows.
    Last edited by Matt Foley; 07-04-12 at 10:37 AM.
    Globalist = Free Trade, Open Borders, Multiculturalist, Anti-White Racist, Hypocrite, Sophist, Deceiver, Manipulator, Warmonger, Vulgar Culture, Morally Depraved......Enemy

    Death to Globalists

  9. #119
    Revolutionary
    TNAR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Last Seen
    02-05-17 @ 01:17 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    2,018
    Blog Entries
    17

    Re: "Free Trade" OR "Protectionism"

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Foley
    Usually I'd say short term gains, but the constant borrowing extends this time frame; so I'm going to throw the word medium into there.
    So you believe that companies which outsource are consciously committing long-term suicide for short-term gains?

  10. #120
    Death2Globalists Matt Foley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    ExecuteTheTraitors
    Last Seen
    11-24-12 @ 12:17 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    5,574

    Re: "Free Trade" OR "Protectionism"

    Quote Originally Posted by TNAR View Post
    So you believe that companies which outsource are consciously committing long-term suicide for short-term gains?
    They don't have a choice. All it takes is for one of your competitors to use slave labor, if you don't follow suit you lose your business. It's frankly not their fault, I still hate rich bastards though, cause they propagandized for this.
    Globalist = Free Trade, Open Borders, Multiculturalist, Anti-White Racist, Hypocrite, Sophist, Deceiver, Manipulator, Warmonger, Vulgar Culture, Morally Depraved......Enemy

    Death to Globalists

Page 12 of 17 FirstFirst ... 21011121314 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •