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Health Care; Privlege, Right or Responsibility?

Is access to health care a privilege, right or responsibility?


  • Total voters
    91
Would govt taxing 100% of your income be stealing?

The government doesn't tax at 100% of your income, in fact taxes are at a lesser rate now than they were for most of the last century. And where are all the jobs that was supposed to have created?
 
The government doesn't tax at 100% of your income, in fact taxes are at a lesser rate now than they were for most of the last century.

Taxes have increased by virtue of what government spends. Just because income tax rates are flat does not get us out of our tax burden. Deficit spending and inflating the money supply also have an undeniable taxing effect. So how much has DHHS expanded over time? Whatever the answer is how increasingly much the taxpayer is forced to shoulder with respect to the welfare of his less productive countrymen.

I've got one source showing defense around 9% of GDP in 1962 dropping gradually over time to about 4% in 2012, whereas HHS was around half a percent of GDP in '62 rising to 5% or more today. I can't link this from this device, but check it if you want. But suffice it to say one has a general downward trend and another has the opposite.

And where are all the jobs that was supposed to have created?

Government is not supposed to be spending money for the purpose of simply creating jobs.
 
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You have offered no case for an ethical argument other that your own opinion

Look up ethics, since you obviously don't have a clue what an ethical argument is. Do you think the ethics of today just were born with the first man? All you've said said is other people dont think that way, you have no brain of your own to use in MY OPINION. If we followed your philosophy on matters, blacks would still be considered inferior.

You can agree that stealing is immoral but, when government takes money, without my permission, it is moral.

which is far afield from most of the country for most of its history under both parties.

You had better start reading more history if thats what you think...

The idea that taxes are the only way to achieve our goal for better healthcare has been indoctrinated in your brain, through years and years of government programs.

Charity Hospital was founded on May 10, 1736, by a grant from the French sailor and shipbuilder Jean Louis, who died in New Orleans the year before. His last will and testament was to finance a hospital for the indigent in the colony of New Orleans from his estate. His hospital has served the poor in New Orleans for over 250 years.

My main point is, the more the state takes control of these moral acts the less moral responsibility we as individuals have. It is pretty evident our society is on a downslope.
 
Government is not supposed to be spending money for the purpose of simply creating jobs.

The only reason voters allowed the tax rates to be temporarily cut for the rich was because of the promise of job creation. Since that did not materialize, there is no reason for voters to continue to allow them. That's what this election will be about.
 
That doesn't answer the question, and if you make health care a right without being specific, you could end up with something less than aspirin.

I think its very easy to understand. If you are sick and need medication or treatment it is given to you. If you need meedicatin it is given to you. If you need surgey you will recieive. Very simple.
 
The only reason voters allowed the tax rates to be temporarily cut for the rich was because of the promise of job creation. Since that did not materialize, there is no reason for voters to continue to allow them. That's what this election will be about.

And the last one, that gave us Obama, that KEPT those rates was just practice? LOL
 
Look up ethics, since you obviously don't have a clue what an ethical argument is. Do you think the ethics of today just were born with the first man? All you've said said is other people dont think that way, you have no brain of your own to use in MY OPINION. If we followed your philosophy on matters, blacks would still be considered inferior.

You can agree that stealing is immoral but, when government takes money, without my permission, it is moral.

The Constitution and rule of law provide the permission for taxation. I don't have to look up ethics, I have studied ethics and there is nothing unethical about taxation with representation to cover the cost of services provided for society.
 
The only reason voters allowed the tax rates to be temporarily cut for the rich was because of the promise of job creation. Since that did not materialize, there is no reason for voters to continue to allow them. That's what this election will be about.

The tax rate cut was not as unreasonable as the belief that its legitimately government's objective to create an economy's jobs.
 
And the last one, that gave us Obama, that KEPT those rates was just practice? LOL

You mean when the GOP threatened to withhold unemployment benefits if their rich friends didn't continue to get their tax cuts? LOL!
 
The tax rate cut was not as unreasonable as the belief that its legitimately government's objective to create an economy's jobs.

Job creation is the only reason voters allowed the temporary tax cuts for the rich.
 
Swinging back to the topic a bit, we don't have rights TO anything being provided to us. The only things we have rights TO are the things we formed a contract with someone to acquire. Beyond that we have a right to receive equal treatment under the law. Otherwise our rights are to be free from undue interference in our lives.

Needs are not rights. It doesn't matter how much I need something, it is not my right to have it furnished for my personal benefit at the expense of any other or all others.
 
What happens if you I dont pay taxes(legal plunder) for your education, medical care, or whatever else you want socialized? Or in this case insurance.
Same thing that happens with you now. You get a visit from the friendly tax agency.
Its not like if we implement UHC that "tax death squads" are going to be running about.

I cant resist, can I? Oh wait I can, but I will be injured during the arrest, locked up, and fined or i could killed resisting.
Uhhhh that all happends now so what the hell are you getting at

You are not personally doing it no, this is true, but you might as well be cause it is through your will this happens. Vote, will, ideology same thing.
So if we implement UHC stuff that already happens now if we dont pay taxes will still keep on happening. Am i correct?


I'm sure you support social contract. I'm born here so I have no real freedom, I have the illusion through voting. "You can just leave if you dont want to be here" is the argument most say. Why am I forced to leave my home?

What kind of supposed free society is this?
:doh
 
Up is down. Left is right. Hard is easy.
What?


Got it. I suppose when words have precisely the meaning you want for them at that very moment then socialism can make sense to you.
You want others to work for your benefit. That is slavery.
Dude its pretty simple everyone already works for everyones benefit. Get out of your cage and open your damn eyes. This isnt hard to understand.
 
Why is money needed to sustain society? In what way is this needed?

To build and maintain the roads you drive on, which allows commerce and logistics to flow so you can actually buy and trade goods with great ease. To fund the schools you attend so you can actually have an education and get a degree, to pay for the defense of the nation, and prosecution of criminal activity, etc. This country runs on taxes, and we all reap the benefits of it, whether we realize this or not.

You make the case of people being smarter, not less moral. What would be the point of survival without morality?

The same point it always was: The natural drive to ensure survival, and to spread ones genes.
 
Other: Healthcare is the labor of one man (woman) provided to another man (woman) for the economic benefit of the provider and health benefit of the payer. A right to another man's (woman's) labor can not be a right. Nor can I be responsible for something I can not prove. Privilege? maybe if the provider is willing I suppose.
 
I think its very easy to understand. If you are sick and need medication or treatment it is given to you. If you need meedicatin it is given to you. If you need surgey you will recieive. Very simple.
unlimited, like the POTUS gets?
 
To build and maintain the roads you drive on, which allows commerce and logistics to flow so you can actually buy and trade goods with great ease.

I can agree with roads, a mixture of toll roads seems the better option, whether they be public or private. The GNO bridge has tolls and has left the Huey P Long bridge in the dust, though it is finally expanding! It cost 800k to maintain and nets over 20 million with over 60 million using it annually, that money should be helping support the horrible road systems in louisiana, something taxes have seemed unable to do. Well I'll share the blame with past government corruption in louisiana and the federal government taking away money for the states disobedience ;)

To fund the schools you attend so you can actually have an education and get a degree.

Not a big fan of compulsory education. Our education system isn't the best, good intentions, bad results. Basics should be taught then allow children of a certain age to start learning trades, becoming adept in a field they choose. Maybe we wouldnt even need to do the latter if minimum wage laws were'nt so bad, meaning teenagers could start working for a modest wage yet, gaining the skills they need to achieve success.

To pay for the defense of the nation.

I would more than willing to pay for defense. Defense is a key word but, is our current strategy really defensive? I would say were a very hostile country, forcing our ideals on other nations, creating all kinds of enemies along the way. I have to say 04-05 iraq was more dangerous, yet the people were a lot friendlier than 2010 when I was there. Also I have to add the military can be a double edged sword, it can be used for us and used against us, though I doubt a majority of soldiers would actually turn against the people.

and prosecution of criminal activity, etc. This country runs on taxes, and we all reap the benefits of it, whether we realize this or not.

Prosecution, you mean the courts? Or police? Or both? Also what is criminal activity, anything the government dictates is illegal? Drugs, prostitution, drinking in public? Isnt it like 1 in 4 are non violent drug offenders?

Don't have a problem paying for these types of things as long as government acts responsible in doing these things, which I feel they are not doing the best job, thanks to political radicals on both sides of the spectrum.
 
The same point it always was: The natural drive to ensure survival, and to spread ones genes.

That's never been enough. That is why most of us have moral codes that we live by, whether religious based or not.
 
Other: Healthcare is the labor of one man (woman) provided to another man (woman) for the economic benefit of the provider and health benefit of the payer. A right to another man's (woman's) labor can not be a right. Nor can I be responsible for something I can not prove. Privilege? maybe if the provider is willing I suppose.

Lets take a review the purpose of the Constitution which I submit trumps your opinion on health care:

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

Preamble to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Just like Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security have all been upheld under our Constitution.
 
Lets take a review the purpose of the Constitution which I submit trumps your opinion on health care:

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

Preamble to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Just like Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security have all been upheld under our Constitution.

It takes quite a ****ed up mind to argue a program like Medicare secures the blessings of liberty to our posterity, given that it actually deliberately flings ever greater cost onto them. Neither individually nor as a nation can it reasonably be argued that leaving a greater debt to our children than we inherited does them a favor.

"Well the Supreme Court said so!" I guess I no longer care what all batsh** crazy things have been upheld. So many abuses and twisting semantic rationalizations have passed through the Court, championed by the spendthrifts in Congress and the White House, that the Constitution has been utterly voided.
 
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Lets take a review the purpose of the Constitution which I submit trumps your opinion on health care:

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

Preamble to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Just like Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security have all been upheld under our Constitution.

That is an apples to moonrocks comparison for sure.

Medicare is for ALL citizens that are at least 65 years old.
Medicaid is a state/federal program for ALL citizens up to the poverty level established.
Social Security is for ALL citizens based on age/disability and rates vary based on lifetime contributions.

PPACA is a MESS that is a plus for some, a minus for many others and has more exceptions than rules:
* Some pay 100% (or their employer helps pay their premiums)
* Some pay 2% to 8% of their pay and the taxpayers pay the rest (use the exchanges).
* Some pay ZERO and get added to medicare.
* None get to keep what they HAD - all is under gov't control now (subject to change without notice).
 
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Dude its pretty simple everyone already works for everyones benefit. Get out of your cage and open your damn eyes. This isnt hard to understand.
I see your problem. You and Catawba believe everyone is already a slave. Here I am objecting to becoming a slave when you believe I am your slave already.

Disgusting.
 
Universal Healthcare. Is this to hard to understand?

You either get Universal or you get quality healthcare, the two do not exist, nor can they exist at the same time. While not a complete oxymoron like freedom in a socialist society, they do have a tendency to cancel each other out.
 
Absolutely nothing can be a "right" if it must be provided by another person and especially if another person must be forced to provide it.

Someone may claim they have the right to use my tax monies to provide them healthcare, but I also have the right to refuse to and I have the right to keep and bear arms to ensure that I keep my right not to. Anyone attempting to exercise their "right" for me to provide them healthcare may find that they no longer have a need for healthcare (or if I am not very accurate, they may need more healthcare, but not from me).
 
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