View Poll Results: Is access to health care a privilege, right or responsibility?

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  • Privilege

    26 23.42%
  • Right

    49 44.14%
  • Responsibility

    39 35.14%
  • Other

    31 27.93%
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Thread: Health Care; Privlege, Right or Responsibility?

  1. #71
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    Re: Health Care; Privlege, Right or Responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by Leo View Post
    I am gobsmacked that this discussion is ongoing in a modern, developed society. Nowhere else in the developed world is there any question that health care is the right of the citizen, and that society must make arrangements to provide it universally, and at no cost at the point of delivery. Tall buildings and aircraft carriers do not a civilisation make.
    Theft, in the guise of benevolence, does not a civilization make.
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    Re: Health Care; Privlege, Right or Responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by Leo View Post
    I am gobsmacked that this discussion is ongoing in a modern, developed society. Nowhere else in the developed world is there any question that health care is the right of the citizen, and that society must make arrangements to provide it universally, and at no cost at the point of delivery. Tall buildings and aircraft carriers do not a civilisation make.
    From each according to their ability (to pay taxes), to each according to their need (for free stuff).
    Yee Ha! Yes they can!
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 06-29-12 at 11:01 PM.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Health Care; Privlege, Right or Responsibility?

    It's neither a right, a privilege, or a responsibility.

    It's a mandate.




    it's way too late to have this discussion... it has been decided.

  4. #74
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    Re: Health Care; Privlege, Right or Responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by Leo View Post
    I am gobsmacked that this discussion is ongoing in a modern, developed society. Nowhere else in the developed world is there any question that health care is the right of the citizen, and that society must make arrangements to provide it universally, and at no cost at the point of delivery. Tall buildings and aircraft carriers do not a civilisation make.
    Does this mean we can go ahead and do away with the false assertions that people don't expect health care to be free?

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    Re: Health Care; Privlege, Right or Responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Does this mean we can go ahead and do away with the false assertions that people don't expect health care to be free?
    That is not what he said. He said, at no cost at the point of delivery. Because you're already paying for it every time you pay taxes.

    In other words, whether or not you get to live should not depend on whether you just happen to have thousands of dollars laying around at a random point in time.

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    Re: Health Care; Privlege, Right or Responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    That is not what he said. He said, at no cost at the point of delivery. Because you're already paying for it every time you pay taxes.

    In other words, whether or not you get to live should not depend on whether you just happen to have thousands of dollars laying around at a random point in time.
    I think it definitely should depend on that, because that would give people a greater incentive to live below their means and be able to save away for later contingencies. Every adult human being that isn't profoundly mentally retarded understands s/he will get sick or injured and die at some point, and there is no ethical reason to expect that someone else's savings or paychecks should be tapped for his/her benefit once that time comes.

    People save for retirement and many other things, so I don't see why saving money for later health care needs is thought of as some shockingly oppressive expectation.
    Last edited by Neomalthusian; 06-29-12 at 11:33 PM.

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    Re: Health Care; Privlege, Right or Responsibility?

    I think that in the USA, which still likes to think of itself as one of the richest and most powerful nations on the planet, that tens of millions of its own citizens have little to no access to medical care is appalling. Yes, people have a responsibility to provide for themselves and their families. But **** happens. When the family breadwinner is suddenly disabled, the government provides a safety net so they don't starve in the street. When people are too old to work, the government provides a safety net so they don't starve in the street. But when hard-working people whose employers don't offer health insurance find that premiums to cover their family would take 1/4 of the family's income are prevented from having access to necessary medical care, the government just shrugs and says, "Wait until you're dying, then you can die in an ER for free." That's just wrong. These 44 million uninsured people have a right to access medical care, and not have to die in order to get it.

    That said, I really don't like the current HCR that comes without a public plan and saddles working people with punitive "taxes" if they cannot find an affordable plan. The government isn't really offering low-cost insurance. It's telling insurance companies that they have to accept anyone who comes to them; of course, these insurance companies can charge whatever they want, and if folks can't afford it, they can pay their "taxes" instead.

    We just learned that the prescription and supplemental insurance we have had for 20+ years at the same annual premium is being increased 450%. That's astronomical! We can't afford that, and I'm not sure what on earth we're going to do.

    Yes, this country needs some form of Universal Health Care so that all of its citizens are provided with basic medical care, and the lucky ones can continue with their high-quality insurance policies. Someday nearly everyone will find themselves financially vulnerable, through job loss, catastrophic medical needs, disability, or just the crime of being old with a worn-out body. I believe the government has the responsibility to make sure these people retain the right to medical care.

    But I don't think HRC was the way to do it, and I think it's going to make things harder on the majority of Americans, not easier.

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    Re: Health Care; Privlege, Right or Responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    I think it definitely should depend on that, because that would give people a greater incentive to live below their means and be able to save away for later contingencies. Every adult human being that isn't profoundly mentally retarded understands s/he will get sick or injured and die at some point, and there is no ethical reason to expect that someone else's savings or paychecks should be tapped for his/her benefit once that time comes.

    People save for retirement and many other things, so I don't see why saving money for later health care needs is thought of as some shockingly oppressive expectation.
    So an 18-year-old born into poverty is just an irresponsible moocher if he doesn't have that? That makes great sense.

    Some people's means are still not high enough to save much even if they cut things down to the bare bones, and moving up the ladder takes time. Sometimes it still doesn't happen even then.

    Yours is a completely nonsensical way of viewing the reality of social mobility and responsibility.

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    Re: Health Care; Privlege, Right or Responsibility?

    Yes there's a right to health care....in so much as one has a right to life and thus has the right to do whatever is in your power to extend that life and make it a healthy one.

    That said...just like any other natural right...your right to having it extends only to yourself. No one has a requirement to provide you health care, nor do you have any right to demand it of them. The "health care" you have a natural right to is whatever form you can provide for yourself.

    In terms of a governmental right...people have a general governmental right to health care and, sadly, thanks to Obama care has created a governmental right for you to force others to provide you health care in such fashion. Such a governmental right is disgusting to its very core in my mind.

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    Re: Health Care; Privlege, Right or Responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    So

    Yours is a completely nonsensical way of viewing the reality of social mobility and responsibility.
    There was a vast amount of social mobility prior to the acceptance of the idea that health care is a right. It's not a right, and if it is a right, then where is the responsibility of people not to have children they can't take care of? If I had some responsibility in the birth of that child, then I would have a responsibility to insure it was taken care of, and had health care. Nobody owes someone else, just as a right of birth. As it stands, people can just keep churning out babies, and the taxpayer is expected (and forced) to pick up the tab for the irresponsibility of others. That is what is irrational.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
    -C G Jung

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