View Poll Results: Is access to health care a privilege, right or responsibility?

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  • Privilege

    26 23.42%
  • Right

    49 44.14%
  • Responsibility

    39 35.14%
  • Other

    31 27.93%
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Thread: Health Care; Privlege, Right or Responsibility?

  1. #51
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    Re: Health Care; Privlege, Right or Responsibility?

    "It is amazing that people who think we cannot afford to pay for doctors, hospitals, and medication somehow think that we can afford to pay doctors, hospitals, medication and a government bureaucracy to administer it." --Thomas Sowell

    I think this quote fits

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    Re: Health Care; Privlege, Right or Responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Di Salvo View Post
    Imo health care for all is part of Social Justice. The problem is that Social Justice isn't part of the Social Contract as far as I'm concerned. If the left wants to make Social Justice part of the Social Contract it is necessary to amend the Social Contract imo. Unless a new bargain is struck there really isn't any hope for social peace.....
    are you saying there will be violence?

  3. #53
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    Re: Health Care; Privlege, Right or Responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    And I attribute all those good things more to notions of indvidualism, liberty from the government as much as possible, as well as a free market and benefits of capitalism.
    ...Except for the fact that virtually everything about your lifestyle would be impossible if it were not for the government and collectivism.

    I think individualism is great. Only in a society that values it can we function at our best, because people who are doing what they're good at and excelling through a meritocracy are extremely valuable.

    However, that does not change the fact that all of us rely on each other to make our lives possible. No one is a pillar. That individualistic, gifted person would be completely powerless if they didn't have society in order to facilitate their gifts. What is Stephen Hawking without medical science? Dead.

    But even on a less extreme scale, how many of us would have lived to adulthood without everything that living in a modern society provides? Very few. How many of us ever would have gotten old enough or become well-educated enough to even discover where our merit lies? Almost none.

  4. #54
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    Re: Health Care; Privlege, Right or Responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hikertrash View Post
    Is it the embodiment of conservatives and republicans to draw back a couple hundred years? It's the 21st century folks.
    When there are two sides in any situation they must either compromise or neither side will know peace. Based on the existing political culture I don't see compromise as being in the cards.

  5. #55
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    Re: Health Care; Privlege, Right or Responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    if everyone who goes to the ER has health-insurance, the ER will always get their money...won't have to eat any more unpaid bills...and therefore lower EVERYBODIES ER bills.

    got it?
    Burden is still placed on wealthiest Americans, is it not? If we insure them, it'll still cost us something.
    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    I've never denied my own hackish tendencies
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    scientific by itself isn't enough of course.
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  6. #56
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    Re: Health Care; Privlege, Right or Responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    I guess that depends on whether you think a self-referential life is worth living. I don't, and neither do most other people. I don't see the point in living if I am not interacting with other people. I'm a human - a social creature - and my life loses all its meaning if it is not spent predominantly in interacting with others. What is the point of existing in a vacuum? I can sit in my apartment and potter about all day long until everything about my environment is perfect, and it will still be lacking.
    What's the point of interacting with people who don't refer back to you?

    Public goods don't guarantee reference. You're mandated to associate with selfish jerks who take them for granted.

    I am not strong enough to save both. If I tried, both would die, and probably, so would I. What is the point of that? That would be a waste of my energy, and result in a 3-fold larger loss of life. That's stupid.
    The point is you're not honoring society in itself. You're honoring parts of society. If you live as a society, you die as a society.

    You always have the option of killing yourself. And I believe very fervently in assisted suicide for virtually any reason, because of exactly the point you've made: none of us get to choose to be here, or under what circumstances. And I think it is wrong to force people to kill themselves in messy or ineffective ways, subjecting their loved ones to more pain than necessary, or causing them to continue living with the damage. I think it should be quick and painless and relatively easy.

    I do not believe in coercion in the least. If you want to check out, I'd love to help make that easier for you. If you want to stay and contribute, I will contribute back.
    You're adding insult to injury.

    For example, a doctor could take that as an excuse to perform surgery on you, giving you some unwarranted capacity. If you don't like it, you could be given the option of suicide.

    The point is to prevent moral hazard, not respond to it.

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    Re: Health Care; Privlege, Right or Responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    And I attribute all those good things more to notions of indvidualism, liberty from the government as much as possible, as well as a free market and the benefits of capitalism.
    All the personal responsibility in the world wouldn't be worth a hill of beans if you were born as one of those babies in Africa that are shown here in commercials at 4 in the morning. The simple fact that no one can ignore is that all of our lives are generally good is because the lives of all the people around us are generally good.
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    Re: Health Care; Privlege, Right or Responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by zgoldsmith23 View Post
    Burden is still placed on wealthiest Americans, is it not? If we insure them, it'll still cost us something.
    no, anyone who goes to the ER.....shares the burden.

    it costs the same to fix the leg of a rich man as it does for a poor man.

  9. #59
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    Re: Health Care; Privlege, Right or Responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daktoria View Post
    What's the point of interacting with people who don't refer back to you?

    Public goods don't guarantee reference. You're mandated to associate with selfish jerks who take them for granted.
    I don't need a pat on the head. I don't do it for recognition. I am aware there are selfish jerks out there. I'm also aware that the decent people vastly outnumber them.

    The point is you're not honoring society in itself. You're honoring parts of society. If you live as a society, you die as a society.
    Uh, no, that's stupid. Society tries to preserve itself. Causing more death than necessary as a token gesture is not a good way of doing that.

    You're adding insult to injury.

    For example, a doctor could take that as an excuse to perform surgery on you, giving you some unwarranted capacity. If you don't like it, you could be given the option of suicide.

    The point is to prevent moral hazard, not respond to it.
    They can do things like that now, for other reasons. Everything has the risk of abuse. Everything. That tiny risk does not justify punishing the majority.

    I see a trend in your inane arguments. You are routinely willing to make more people suffer in order to avoid some either totally imaginary or relatively insignificant problem. That is ridiculous.

  10. #60
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    Re: Health Care; Privlege, Right or Responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    no, anyone who goes to the ER.....shares the burden.

    it costs the same to fix the leg of a rich man as it does for a poor man.
    Jeez - it costs them something to fix the leg. If they can't pay for the treatment, they don't get the treatment. It will still cost taxpayers something. Basically, it covers more and costs more. I want it to cost less therefore it'll cover less.
    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    I've never denied my own hackish tendencies
    Quote Originally Posted by Pin dÁr View Post
    scientific by itself isn't enough of course.
    Quote Originally Posted by blaxshep View Post
    Not all Nazis were bad people

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