View Poll Results: Is access to health care a privilege, right or responsibility?

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  • Privilege

    26 23.42%
  • Right

    49 44.14%
  • Responsibility

    39 35.14%
  • Other

    31 27.93%
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Thread: Health Care; Privlege, Right or Responsibility?

  1. #381
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    Re: Health Care; Privlege, Right or Responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    The Preamble isn't justification for any law. As far as the Constitutionality of the law, Nearly as many Justices ruled it unconstitutional as ruled it constitutional. And the at least one of the majority said it was in fact unconstitutional as written. I would bet money the final chapter isn't written by the Supreme Court on this one. Now, however the SCOTUS can't accept another case until someone has paid the tax.
    This thread however asks is it a right privilege or responsibility, not if it's Constitutional. My point is how do you provide a "right" to one person (a patient) if it can ONLY be provide by a second person (a doctor)? What if the doctor refuses?
    The Preamble is the purpose of the Constitution. If you are confused about how UHC, just ask every other industrialized nation on the planet. We are the last remaining hold out.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  2. #382
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    Re: Health Care; Privlege, Right or Responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    The Preamble is the purpose of the Constitution. If you are confused about how UHC, just ask every other industrialized nation on the planet. We are the last remaining hold out.
    We also have a different system of laws than every other industrialized nation in the world. So I will ask again, How do you provide a "right" to one person (a patient) if it can ONLY be provide by a second person (a doctor)? What if the doctor refuses?

    Would you be as amicable to requiring gun ownership and collecting "penalties" from people who chose not to own guns?
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  3. #383
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    Re: Health Care; Privlege, Right or Responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    We also have a different system of laws than every other industrialized nation in the world. So I will ask again, How do you provide a "right" to one person (a patient) if it can ONLY be provide by a second person (a doctor)? What if the doctor refuses?
    We have no laws that prevent UHC. And, as long as doctors are paid, they have no problem providing services, just as they do in every other industrialized country on the planet.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  4. #384
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    Re: Health Care; Privlege, Right or Responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    We have no laws that prevent UHC.
    I would argue that the 10th amendment prohibits UHC.
    The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
    I don't remember heath care being as enumerated power.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    And, as long as doctors are paid, they have no problem providing services, just as they do in every other industrialized country on the planet.
    Whether they will do it or not is not at issue. The question is; Can we definitively provide a right to a person if it has to be provided by another person. The answer is NO. We can decide we are going to devise a system to allow people to get healthcare, that however is completely dependent on the willingness of another person to provide that service (whether for money or otherwise). One person's "right" to healthcare can't supercede another's right to their own actions. A right to healthcare would require enslaving the healthcare professional to provide it. This is not a popular choice because it would ultimately lead to less doctors and horrible healthcare so the alternative is to enslave everyone else the amount of their labor required to pay for the UHC.
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  5. #385
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    Re: Health Care; Privlege, Right or Responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    We have no laws that prevent UHC. And, as long as doctors are paid, they have no problem providing services, just as they do in every other industrialized country on the planet.
    I think you are mistaken. Why don't you ask a doctor?

    Obamacare has 83 percent of doctor

    I deal with doctors everyday. Based on my conversations with them, while they have compassion for the uninsured, they feel that this particular "remedy" (UHC) will do more harm that good. They claim that, as it is, their reimbursements from Medicare and Medicaid generally don't even break even against their expenses for those patients. Additionally they state that UHC, leaving no room for competition, will leave little in the way of discretion for the physicians and little incentive for quaity care and customer service.

  6. #386
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    Re: Health Care; Privlege, Right or Responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    I would argue that the 10th amendment prohibits UHC.


    I don't remember heath care being as enumerated power.
    It doesn't have to be. See the Supreme Court decisions that were upheld for SS, Medicare, and the Republican insurance mandate.


    The question is; Can we definitively provide a right to a person if it has to be provided by another person.
    See the Supreme Court decisions that were upheld for SS, Medicare, and the Republican insurance mandate.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  7. #387
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    Re: Health Care; Privlege, Right or Responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by kamikaze483 View Post
    I think you are mistaken. Why don't you ask a doctor?

    Obamacare has 83 percent of doctor

    I deal with doctors everyday. Based on my conversations with them, while they have compassion for the uninsured, they feel that this particular "remedy" (UHC) will do more harm that good. They claim that, as it is, their reimbursements from Medicare and Medicaid generally don't even break even against their expenses for those patients. Additionally they state that UHC, leaving no room for competition, will leave little in the way of discretion for the physicians and little incentive for quaity care and customer service.
    If the conservative's insurance mandate doesn't work out, we can always go back to a single payer as we should have gone with originally instead of compromising with the the conservatives for their insurance mandate.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  8. #388
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    Re: Health Care; Privlege, Right or Responsibility?

    Single payer would have never passed.
    “Tyranny is defined as that which is legal for the government but illegal for the citizenry.”
    ― Thomas Jefferson

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    Re: Health Care; Privlege, Right or Responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    See the Supreme Court decisions that were upheld for SS, Medicare, and the Republican insurance mandate.
    None of those are a "right". They are law, they are not rights.
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  10. #390
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    Re: Health Care; Privlege, Right or Responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aberration View Post
    Single payer would have never passed.
    It will eventually, as it is the only realistic way to address the highest health care cost in the world. The conservative's insurance mandate is only a bandaid.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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