View Poll Results: Is access to health care a privilege, right or responsibility?

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  • Privilege

    26 23.42%
  • Right

    49 44.14%
  • Responsibility

    39 35.14%
  • Other

    31 27.93%
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Thread: Health Care; Privlege, Right or Responsibility?

  1. #341
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    Re: Health Care; Privlege, Right or Responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    First, PPACA isn't publicly funded healthcare. It's a mandate for people to buy services from another person / company.
    Second, the first question should be does it fit into the American way of government?
    Many other countries have many social programs, they also enjoy less freedom than the United States. I personally value my freedom.



    Sure it penalizes certain people. Healthy people that don't need health care. Wealthy people that may more than they use in healthcare. I don't see how you say those people are not penalized.
    PPACA seeks to CONTROL (or destroy) the "private" medical care insurance market, by imposing both mimimum and maximum benefits, limitting overhead/profit and controlling premiuim costs. It is ONLY possible by using gov't mandates, that are simply controling the activities of a THIRD PARTY. What in PPACA, has ANY control over the cost of the actual medical care provided, other that the IPAB, which can only REMOVE care or mandate that it be "free" to the patient?
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  2. #342
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    Re: Health Care; Privlege, Right or Responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    PPACA seeks to CONTROL (or destroy) the "private" medical care insurance market, by imposing both mimimum and maximum benefits, limitting overhead/profit and controlling premiuim costs. It is ONLY possible by using gov't mandates, that are simply controling the activities of a THIRD PARTY. What in PPACA, has ANY control over the cost of the actual medical care provided, other that the IPAB, which can only REMOVE care or mandate that it be "free" to the patient?
    The taxes on medical equipment and pharmaceuticals will certainly make the cost of them go up. ;-)
    From the ashes.

  3. #343
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    Re: Health Care; Privlege, Right or Responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    They are actually a good example of my point. Those aren't rights. Many places don't even have a fire departments. Where I live it's all volunteers. If they decide not to show up..oh well. My rights aren't violated because they didn't show up. Policemen and firemen are people they have a right to their life and liberty, everyone else has no right to their labor.
    I've never claimed it to be a right. in fact, I think the entire train of thought is largely missing the point. I suggest like fire departments, instead we're trying to solve a complex problem by working together. And firefighters and police officers get paid. So, your last part seems largely non-responsive.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  4. #344
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    Re: Health Care; Privlege, Right or Responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    PPACA seeks to CONTROL (or destroy) the "private" medical care insurance market, by imposing both mimimum and maximum benefits, limitting overhead/profit and controlling premiuim costs. It is ONLY possible by using gov't mandates, that are simply controling the activities of a THIRD PARTY. What in PPACA, has ANY control over the cost of the actual medical care provided, other that the IPAB, which can only REMOVE care or mandate that it be "free" to the patient?
    This is largely mindless rhethoric.

    No care cannot be removed from anyone. Deciding what you will pay for is not removing care. The care is still there. And you can still buy it. You will likely find more people will get more more care, not less.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  5. #345
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    Re: Health Care; Privlege, Right or Responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    First, PPACA isn't publicly funded healthcare. It's a mandate for people to buy services from another person / company.
    Second, the first question should be does it fit into the American way of government?
    Many other countries have many social programs, they also enjoy less freedom than the United States. I personally value my freedom.

    Sure it penalizes certain people. Healthy people that don't need health care. Wealthy people that may more than they use in healthcare. I don't see how you say those people are not penalized.
    If you had read my posts more carefully, instead of simply reacting to what you thought I said, you would have found that I was not referring to the The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, but the matter of Universal Health Care in principle. From what little I know of the The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, it is an appalling travesty of a health care act, which has nothing to do with UHC. It is simply corporate welfare for the health insurance industry, with the sop of some slight control thrown in.

    As far as personal freedoms are concerned, I, as a Brit, am not aware of missing out on any freedoms an American enjoys, unless you consider that ludicrous 'bearing arms' thing a 'freedom'. So, apart from that, can you enumerate the freedoms you enjoy that a Briton does not?

    Are you seriously suggesting that healthy people are penalised by having health care available as and when they should need it? Are they, and the wealthy, similarly penalised by having police, fire services, and defence forces available? I doubt many of even your most conservative compatriots would agree with those views. Keep it real!
    I hate the idea of causes, and if I had to choose between betraying my country and betraying my friend, I hope I should have the guts to betray my country. E.M. Forster

  6. #346
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    Re: Health Care; Privlege, Right or Responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    Everyone should have the right to proper medical care.
    I wonder where it stops..........Is a job a right? Is a car to drive to the job a right? Is a free house to live in a right...........Is free food a right....Are we not responsible for anything? I believe we have a name for that.
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

  7. #347
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    Re: Health Care; Privlege, Right or Responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnny_rebson View Post
    Exactly. They need to call an insurance company and get a policy.
    As Mitt Romney and Barack Obama says, personal healthcare should be a mandate. Mitt Romney likes mandates. Can't dog out Obamacare without dogging out Romney too.

    Here's the funny part. Rightwingnuts hate Obamacare. But you never hear much out of them regarding Romneycare, which is a spitting image of Obamacare. This is all just partisan hackery.

    Here's one for the rightwingers. Watch and cringe. Mitt Obama..er...Romney at the 2008 GOP New Hampshire debates.

    Last edited by Captain America; 07-06-12 at 04:50 PM.

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  8. #348
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    Re: Health Care; Privlege, Right or Responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain America View Post
    As Mitt Romney and Barack Obama says, personal healthcare should be a mandate. Mitt Romney likes mandates. Can't dog out Obamacare without dogging out Romney too.

    Here's the funny part. Rightwingnuts hate Obamacare. But you never hear much out of them regarding Romneycare, which is a spitting image of Obamacare. This is all just partisan hackery.

    Here's one for the rightwingers. Watch and cringe. Mitt Obama..er...Romney at the 2008 GOP New Hampshire debates.


    It's just fine if a republican supports it, but it is evil Marxism if a democrat supports it. You just have to get this stuff down Captain.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  9. #349
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    Re: Health Care; Privlege, Right or Responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by Leo View Post
    As far as personal freedoms are concerned, I, as a Brit, am not aware of missing out on any freedoms an American enjoys, unless you consider that ludicrous 'bearing arms' thing a 'freedom'. So, apart from that, can you enumerate the freedoms you enjoy that a Briton does not?
    You are completely free except those chains?

    Quote Originally Posted by Leo View Post
    Are you seriously suggesting that healthy people are penalised by having health care available as and when they should need it? Are they, and the wealthy, similarly penalised by having police, fire services, and defence forces available? I doubt many of even your most conservative compatriots would agree with those views. Keep it real!
    Absolutely! I person stays healthy and has to pay for others unhealthy lifestyles? Merely because they are wealthy. That is certainly a penalty. (even the healthcare law says its a penalty). Police and fire are local functions not the federal government. National defense is part of the Constitution of the United States. Health Care...not so much.
    From the ashes.

  10. #350
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    Re: Health Care; Privlege, Right or Responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    It's just fine if a republican supports it, but it is evil Marxism if a democrat supports it. You just have to get this stuff down Captain.
    Stop sipping the koolaid and take a REAL look at RomneyCare, paying particular attention to its REAL costs, and continued abuses (temporary use of coverage and continued free ER care use) when put into actual pratice (page down to OUTCOMES and read it). It is easy to make generalizations and rosy predictions, even to say the two are the same, but then to deny reality, takes true partisanship.

    Link: Massachusetts health care reform - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 07-06-12 at 05:38 PM.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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