View Poll Results: Is access to health care a privilege, right or responsibility?

Voters
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  • Privilege

    26 23.42%
  • Right

    49 44.14%
  • Responsibility

    39 35.14%
  • Other

    31 27.93%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: Health Care; Privlege, Right or Responsibility?

  1. #271
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    Re: Health Care; Privlege, Right or Responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyBurns View Post
    I don't have health insurance and I am against this bill. It is a noble goal but, this is not the way to go about it.
    I said majority not all...and I agree its not the best way to go...but it is the only way, if we waited for the GOP to get a plan it would be the plan they always have had...Screw You unsuccessful slugs and leave us rich folk alone ...that doesnt work either

  2. #272
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    Re: Health Care; Privlege, Right or Responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    I said majority not all...and I agree its not the best way to go...but it is the only way, if we waited for the GOP to get a plan it would be the plan they always have had...Screw You unsuccessful slugs and leave us rich folk alone ...that doesnt work either
    That's actually not the position of the GOP, the party diverges along two ideologies actually, there is a constitutionalist wing and a wing that is almost liberal in it's desire for more government than the founders envisioned(though less than many Democrats). It's split between the old guard and the new conservatives from the south. What Republicans tend to be against are expansions without a definitive fit to the necessary and proper standard, it isn't about "screw the poor".

    In reality, Republicans tend to infight and shoot themselves in the foot too long to get a unified and coherent message of where the party stands and end up looking like they are spineless and stupied. Both Republican and conservative Democrats when being honest agree on the real fixes, but no one has the political will to do it. The fixes are incredibly difficult and there are about three major lobbies on either side of the aisle to contend with.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  3. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    That is a complete fallacy. Your argument rests on the incorrect assumption that "taxes" are stealing your property. The same argument would have to then say that taxing to have police/fire protection to protect property is "stealing your property".
    Illness and death are universal certainties, and the costs associated with them are potentially limitless, meaning taxing away my property (or worse forcing me to surrender it to a corporation) increasingly and increasingly over time, and this stops looking like standard taxation and starts looking like something much more abusive.

    Our American society, as any society exists for the betterment of its citizenry. Paying taxes is part of life, it is part of the price you pay to be a part of this society. You don't get the benefits of our society for free.
    Talk about a fallacy (straw man to be exact). Neither I nor any other fiscally conservative person wants to live here for free. We simply don't want to be forced by federal law to pay everyone else's bills at a cost of 5% more of our annual pay year over year. That is bankrupting the citizenry, which is certainly not for our "betterment."
    Last edited by Neomalthusian; 07-03-12 at 02:01 PM.

  4. #274
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    Re: Health Care; Privlege, Right or Responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daktoria View Post
    It's a right from your parents who force you into the world and society without prior consent.

    Theoretically speaking, their obligation to uphold this right could carry unto their deathbed, but hopefully, it's relieved once children are graduated into adulthood by demonstrating maturity through a rite of passage.
    How would they obtain prior consent?
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  5. #275
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    Re: Health Care; Privlege, Right or Responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    You would have to prove the case that taxes are stealing. You have not done that.
    Would govt taxing 100% of your income be stealing?
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  6. #276
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    Re: Health Care; Privlege, Right or Responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Would govt taxing 100% of your income be stealing?
    The government doesn't tax at 100% of your income, in fact taxes are at a lesser rate now than they were for most of the last century. And where are all the jobs that was supposed to have created?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  7. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    The government doesn't tax at 100% of your income, in fact taxes are at a lesser rate now than they were for most of the last century.
    Taxes have increased by virtue of what government spends. Just because income tax rates are flat does not get us out of our tax burden. Deficit spending and inflating the money supply also have an undeniable taxing effect. So how much has DHHS expanded over time? Whatever the answer is how increasingly much the taxpayer is forced to shoulder with respect to the welfare of his less productive countrymen.

    I've got one source showing defense around 9% of GDP in 1962 dropping gradually over time to about 4% in 2012, whereas HHS was around half a percent of GDP in '62 rising to 5% or more today. I can't link this from this device, but check it if you want. But suffice it to say one has a general downward trend and another has the opposite.

    And where are all the jobs that was supposed to have created?
    Government is not supposed to be spending money for the purpose of simply creating jobs.
    Last edited by Neomalthusian; 07-03-12 at 02:39 PM.

  8. #278
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    Re: Health Care; Privlege, Right or Responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    You have offered no case for an ethical argument other that your own opinion
    Look up ethics, since you obviously don't have a clue what an ethical argument is. Do you think the ethics of today just were born with the first man? All you've said said is other people dont think that way, you have no brain of your own to use in MY OPINION. If we followed your philosophy on matters, blacks would still be considered inferior.

    You can agree that stealing is immoral but, when government takes money, without my permission, it is moral.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    which is far afield from most of the country for most of its history under both parties.
    You had better start reading more history if thats what you think...

    The idea that taxes are the only way to achieve our goal for better healthcare has been indoctrinated in your brain, through years and years of government programs.

    Charity Hospital was founded on May 10, 1736, by a grant from the French sailor and shipbuilder Jean Louis, who died in New Orleans the year before. His last will and testament was to finance a hospital for the indigent in the colony of New Orleans from his estate. His hospital has served the poor in New Orleans for over 250 years.

    My main point is, the more the state takes control of these moral acts the less moral responsibility we as individuals have. It is pretty evident our society is on a downslope.

  9. #279
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    Re: Health Care; Privlege, Right or Responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Government is not supposed to be spending money for the purpose of simply creating jobs.
    The only reason voters allowed the tax rates to be temporarily cut for the rich was because of the promise of job creation. Since that did not materialize, there is no reason for voters to continue to allow them. That's what this election will be about.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  10. #280
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    Re: Health Care; Privlege, Right or Responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by mpg View Post
    That doesn't answer the question, and if you make health care a right without being specific, you could end up with something less than aspirin.
    I think its very easy to understand. If you are sick and need medication or treatment it is given to you. If you need meedicatin it is given to you. If you need surgey you will recieive. Very simple.


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