View Poll Results: Is access to health care a privilege, right or responsibility?

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  • Privilege

    26 23.42%
  • Right

    49 44.14%
  • Responsibility

    39 35.14%
  • Other

    31 27.93%
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Thread: Health Care; Privlege, Right or Responsibility?

  1. #171
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    Re: Health Care; Privlege, Right or Responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    It is a good or service.
    So is a firefighter and a polcie officer. All three are different than selling widgets on the market.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Health Care; Privlege, Right or Responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I've been a provider, and I never thought of it that way. Yes, I took my check, but I have worked off the clock as well. I'm just saying I don't think of that service in terms of profit, not like I would selling widgets.
    I've worked off the clock too, voluntarily.
    If you expect people to be rational, you aren't being rational.

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    Re: Health Care; Privlege, Right or Responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by mpg View Post
    I've worked off the clock too, voluntarily.
    Accepted. But no one has asked anyone be mandated to work for free. I was merely speaking of a frame of mind, how we look at the service.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  4. #174
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    Re: Health Care; Privlege, Right or Responsibility?

    I guess to me it is less philosophical. I don't want kids in public schools (or schools that get ANY support from taxpayers, including tax exempt status) who have not been vaccinated because I don't want crowds of people with communicable diseases in my community.

    I want young people to be given health care so they can grow up to be productive taxpayers. Given the Baby Boomer population bubble, I view every young person in America as a valuable resource. I am too sentimental or whatever you may call it to withhold life-saving care from anyone, even a criminal or an illegal alien -- but I recognize that health care is a limited resource and that its costs continue to climb. My view is it is being rationed now (although this is not what it's called) because the care given to the working poor and the uninsured is so substandard, and that I'd prefer it to be rationed in an above-board manner, so we all have a voice in decision.

    I fear a population in the tens or even the hundreds of millions over age 65, living to age 100 and sucking the taxpaying workers of this country dry as a bone -- and I say this as someone who is almost 60 herself.

  5. #175
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    Re: Health Care; Privlege, Right or Responsibility?

    Complete free market healthcare is our best bet! Government protects the current monopolies of medications and equipment. Canada doesnt obey our intellectual property rights, look at the cost of medication. Why should the state license doctors? They can do it if they want, but why cant I choose to go to whom ever I want, as in getting stitches. Also why do I need to go to a doctor to get a prescription, especially when i know what I need. India doesn't have this problem. Eh well we can thank the war on drugs for that! Regulation,s regulations, regulations, France is supposedly number 1 right? Regulations are supposedly low, though I havent confirmed this. If we could just use the free market and incorporate all these aspects of other systems that provide benefits we could see real improvements to healthcare.

    Well looking at some articles number 1 france has had some bumps, Haha soo I guess the WHO isnt a very good source to look at rankings
    Last edited by LibertyBurns; 07-02-12 at 02:34 AM.

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    Re: Health Care; Privlege, Right or Responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Accepted. But no one has asked anyone be mandated to work for free. I was merely speaking of a frame of mind, how we look at the service.
    I was just pointing out the downside of positive rights.
    If you expect people to be rational, you aren't being rational.

  7. #177
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    Re: Health Care; Privlege, Right or Responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyBurns View Post
    Any specific country you want to talk about?

    I don't think badly of these systems in comparison to our current system, but there are more factors involved. Are the lines long? A few ranked higher than us are. Are they good economically? A few countries come to mind. Now also may I ask about regulations? Cash payments instead of insurance?

    Edit:
    The U.S. has a spending problem right now, medicaid and medicare are doing well for us already! I would state regulation and government intervention has caused this problem.
    Well, the two countries with which I have had the most first hand experience are the UK, and Australia. As I am a Brit, I will avoid discussing the NHS for fear of being labelled biased. So let's talk about Australia (which I suspect may have a system more likely to appeal to Americans anyway).

    The Australian universal health care system is called Medicare (not to be confused with the US system). It is funded partly by general taxation, and partly by something called the Medicare Levy. The Medicare Levy is, in general, a modest 1.5% of taxable income, rising to 2.5% of taxable income above a certain level.

    Full details of the Australian Medicare service is available here -
    Medicare

    But in general, it works like this -

    You, or your parents, pay your income tax and Medicare Levy.

    You get sick, and you go to the doctor of your choice.

    He treats you or sends you to a specialist or hospital of your choice.

    You get better, and you go home - there is nothing more to pay.

    If you require pharmaceuticals post treatment, they are heavily subsidised.

    The doctor, specialist, or hospital sends the government the bill, and receives payment in due course.

    It really is that simple, and all the doctors, specialists, etc. are private practitioners.

    But it is not perfect, inasmuch as it does not cover dental services, and only limited optical service - the cost of consultations, but not the cost of spectacles or contact lenses. It should be extended to cover both those items. Although Australians on an old age pension, a disability pension, or a veteran's pension, are eligible for free dental cover and spectacles.

    In general, waiting lists are acceptably short, and any life threatening situations are treated immediately.

    I don't understand your question - "Now also may I ask about regulations? Cash payments instead of insurance?" Could you elaborate?

    I have only given the briefest synopsis of the Australian UHC system, but most details are available on the link I provided. Australia is one of the most economically stable countries in the world at present, so UHC does not appear to have affected it adversely.
    I hate the idea of causes, and if I had to choose between betraying my country and betraying my friend, I hope I should have the guts to betray my country. E.M. Forster

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    Re: Health Care; Privlege, Right or Responsibility?

    By WHO rankings, the ranking of the US is 37 and Australia being 35, the UK being higher than both with a rank of 18. Australia pays half of what we pay and they boast a better ranking, bravo. Both the UK and Australia as you stated have a better movement paying system. I don't know how much I trust rankings though. Australia seems to be better than both. With exception to cancer survival rates. Uk tends to lag in elective surgery, same as Canada. I don't really have enough information, even the WHO said screw it, its to hard lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Leo View Post
    I don't understand your question - "Now also may I ask about regulations? Cash payments instead of insurance?" Could you elaborate?
    Well when it comes to regs Ill have to take my time to elaborate.

    Cash payments tend to be cheaper then going through Insurance companies, due to the fact that our insurance companies are garbage. Out of pocket

    Edit:

    Really I'm not going to do this lol, I'll leave it to the experts haha... There are way to many factors involved when it comes to medical care, different territories/states have different qualities, regulations, laws, economics, ip laws, licensing, statistics out the yang, elective surgery waits, this are just the ones off the top of my head.
    Last edited by LibertyBurns; 07-02-12 at 02:59 PM.

  9. #179
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    Re: Health Care; Privlege, Right or Responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyBurns View Post
    By WHO rankings, the ranking of the US is 37 and Australia being 35, the UK being higher than both with a rank of 18. Australia pays half of what we pay and they boast a better ranking, bravo. Both the UK and Australia as you stated have a better movement paying system. I don't know how much I trust rankings though. Australia seems to be better than both. With exception to cancer survival rates. Uk tends to lag in elective surgery, same as Canada. I don't really have enough information, even the WHO said screw it, its to hard lol.



    Well when it comes to regs Ill have to take my time to elaborate.

    Cash payments tend to be cheaper then going through Insurance companies, due to the fact that our insurance companies are garbage. Out of pocket

    Edit:

    Really I'm not going to do this lol, I'll leave it to the experts haha... There are way to many factors involved when it comes to medical care, different territories/states have different qualities, regulations, laws, economics, ip laws, licensing, statistics out the yang, elective surgery waits, this are just the ones off the top of my head.
    I have stated before here that the WHO uses selective and biased models. Instead of looking at morbidity rates as catagories they kind of simplify things like taking out lifestyles between the different countries. For instance the U.S. has more urban violence leading to murder where Europes violence is often higher but with less murders, much of this comes down to urban gang and drug violence, but, because it falls under mortality it is put into that age groups suvival rates, there are other similar biases(not sure whether these are intentional or unintended biases due to differing models). The people who do the best math on healthcare are insurance industry actuaries, it's actually scary how many people will fall ill to/die of what causes compared to their probability models. I'm not knocking the systems of other countries but rather the data model of the WHO, from what I understand emergency care is sufficient in most models as is chronic illness care but for most life threatening care the U.S. still leads if I remember correctly.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  10. #180
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    Re: Health Care; Privlege, Right or Responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyBurns View Post
    Complete free market healthcare is our best bet!
    Best bet for what? A nation of indigents at the mercy of prices by health care providers? Yeah, that's working out well for the third world.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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