View Poll Results: Is access to health care a privilege, right or responsibility?

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  • Privilege

    26 23.42%
  • Right

    49 44.14%
  • Responsibility

    39 35.14%
  • Other

    31 27.93%
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Thread: Health Care; Privlege, Right or Responsibility?

  1. #131
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    Re: Health Care; Privlege, Right or Responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    No one has a right to health care.
    That's your opinion. I disagree.
    Ted Cruz is the dumbest person alive.

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    Re: Health Care; Privlege, Right or Responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by mpg View Post
    You don't need to explain that to me. I'm a health care provider, so I'm offended when people say that they have a right to my labor. My post went right over your head.
    Not at all. I was not addressing it to you. You already understand. I do hope that some others may finally "get it." But I have my doubts.
    It is not just about having a right to your labor, which is slavery. The government, through this one decision has said that we no longer have a right to property. Of such things revolutions are born. My generation will not revolt. But the people who are in their twenties today sure better.

  3. #133
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    Re: Health Care; Privlege, Right or Responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    So you don't think people have a right to health care? That seems contrary to your job.
    Every productive/employed person in the country is selling a good or a service. You only have a right to those goods and services once you've paid for them. I have a right to offer to pay you for your services, and I only have a right to receive your services if you accept my offer and we've agreed to the terms of a purchase.

    Contract Law for Beginners here.

    The very reason the health care industry is so messed up and so astronomically expensive is that there is no contracting between providers and patients. Doc says "you should get this done." Patient says "Mkay, doc." Then the procedure happens and the bill is sent off to a far distant land for processing. If it somehow ends up back in the patient's mailbox, he protests. That's how removed we are from the price discipline that suppresses costs in every other market. As customers of this industry, we clearly expect to get all the health care we need when we need it, and virtually never expect to have to pay for it.

    Ever ask a doctor what a test or procedure or medication he's recommending actually costs? I do every time I go and it exasperates them. They never know. It seems like many patients never ask. Think about that for a second. The person offering a service doesn't know what his service costs, and neither does the person buying it. It should baffle no one that health care has become expensive.
    Last edited by Neomalthusian; 07-01-12 at 04:40 PM.

  4. #134
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    Re: Health Care; Privlege, Right or Responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by mpg View Post
    You don't need to explain that to me. I'm a health care provider, so I'm offended when people say that they have a right to my labor. My post went right over your head.
    Based on your feedback I changed several words to make it clear that you were not the target of my post. Thank you for your swift feedback. I think it is a better post now.

  5. #135
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    Re: Health Care; Privlege, Right or Responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    That's your opinion. I disagree.
    Then you are a thief.

    If there is a right then who is obligated? And what is the moral precept that you follow where plunder is acceptable to you? If theft is good what about rape? Murder? Or do you draw the line at theft?

  6. #136
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    Re: Health Care; Privlege, Right or Responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Then you are a thief.

    If there is a right then who is obligated? And what is the moral precept that you follow where plunder is acceptable to you? If theft is good what about rape? Murder? Or do you draw the line at theft?
    To entitle all people to medical professionals' services is actually enslavement. It only becomes theft if you take from someone else to pay the person so he doesn't feel enslaved.

    And liberals don't see it as theft if it's done through a government taxation and redistribution mechanism. If you take $7,000 from someone, that's a huge theft. The DHHS cost over $1 Trillion in 2012, which averages to about $7,000 per working citizen, however this is not seen as theft. It's, I don't know, what do they call it, "the cost of living in a civilized society" or some **** like that, which is a last refuge defense of any conceivable abuse.
    Last edited by Neomalthusian; 07-01-12 at 04:55 PM.

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    Re: Health Care; Privlege, Right or Responsibility?

    People fail to realise that more people will go to the doctor if they are forced to pay for insurance, even for things that otherwise they wouldn't go for.

    I personally don't have insurance, if I would have had it when an artillery shell from a firework hit me in the leg you can bet would have went to the doctor. Or when I sliced my hand open on a rusty object, an aluminum broom to be exact. Instead i treated both these injuries myself, I admit I was very worried about my leg haha, you could see the fat and muscles, it took 2 months for the wound to close up without stitches.

    I understand that people want affordable healthcare, The Affordable Healthcare Act will not reach the goal it is trying to achieve, no matter the good intention of it.
    Last edited by LibertyBurns; 07-01-12 at 04:53 PM.

  8. #138
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    Re: Health Care; Privlege, Right or Responsibility?

    It's none of the above, it's a commodity, plain and simple. If it were a right it would simply exist, this is not the case in that if every doctor just said screw it and closed shop it would no longer be a viable option(hypothetical). If it were a priveledge it would contextually be only for those who can truly afford it, however we have options beyond 100% out of pocket and laws mandating emergency care so that's out of the door. If it were a responsibility then it would dictate that you have a moral obligation to keep yourself fit, healthy, and engage in the activity......I firmly believe we have the right to forgo treatment for any given reason, some may see it as selfish, not our call. With all of the above it can only be "other", a commodity to be sought out at the best value we can obtain if we so choose.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  9. #139
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    Re: Health Care; Privlege, Right or Responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Every productive/employed person in the country is selling a good or a service. You only have a right to those goods and services once you've paid for them. I have a right to offer to pay you for your services, and I only have a right to receive your services if you accept my offer and we've agreed to the terms of a purchase.

    Contract Law for Beginners here.

    The very reason the health care industry is so messed up and so astronomically expensive is that there is no contracting between providers and patients. Doc says "you should get this done." Patient says "Mkay, doc." Then the procedure happens and the bill is sent off to a far distant land for processing. If it somehow ends up back in the patient's mailbox, he protests. That's how removed we are from the price discipline that suppresses costs in every other market. As customers of this industry, we clearly expect to get all the health care we need when we need it, and virtually never expect to have to pay for it.

    Ever ask a doctor what a test or procedure or medication he's recommending actually costs? I do every time I go and it exasperates them. They never know. It seems like many patients never ask. Think about that for a second. The person offering a service doesn't know what his service costs, and neither does the person buying it. It should baffle no one that health care has become expensive.
    Because it's not worth it. The individual has no bargaining chip. You can say, "**** that bull**** I won't pay it" and they'll send you packing. At least governmental and insurance agencies have the power to bargain over costs of procedures and medicines.

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Then you are a thief.

    If there is a right then who is obligated? And what is the moral precept that you follow where plunder is acceptable to you? If theft is good what about rape? Murder? Or do you draw the line at theft?
    Much like many of our resources, healthcare should be a pool that we all pay into. Pooling of losses is an important aspect of society and it exists for a reason. You just want to cut out a large portion of society who needs it more than you. That would make you the thief, buddy.
    Ted Cruz is the dumbest person alive.

  10. #140
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    Re: Health Care; Privlege, Right or Responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post

    Much like many of our resources, healthcare should be a pool that we all pay into. Pooling of losses is an important aspect of society and it exists for a reason. You just want to cut out a large portion of society who needs it more than you. That would make you the thief, buddy.
    What is sad is that you actually believe that stealing from your neighbors is a good thing.

    You try to pretty it up but it remains theft. You are a self-identified liberal. But you use Marxist words, "From each...to each" so it becomes clear what you really are.

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