View Poll Results: Is property self justifying

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  • Yes, property is an innate right, your exclusive rights to your property is self justifying

    9 75.00%
  • No, if you want exlusive rights to something it must be justfiable.

    3 25.00%
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Thread: Is porperty Self justifying?

  1. #81
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    Re: Is porperty Self justifying?

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    In other words is property an innate right, or does it need to be justified?

    Here is my position:

    No, it just be justified either that it is needed by you exclusively and the sharing of it would be counter intuitive, or because you having exclusive rights to somethign would benefit soceity as a whole.

    Having exclusive rights to part of the earth is NOT self justifiying, because you found it or whatever, if you want exclusive rights, and thus the potential for authority, it needs to be justified somehow.
    It's justified by me owning the deed. If anyone disagrees, they can file a complaint with my 30-06.
    I love the NSA. It's like having a secret fan-base you will never see, but they're there, watching everything you write and it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that I may be some person's only form of unconstitutional entertainment one night.

  2. #82
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    Re: Is porperty Self justifying?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lokiate View Post
    It's justified by me owning the deed. If anyone disagrees, they can file a complaint with my 30-06.
    Smile, wait for the flash. Shick shick boom. I like a speedy complaint department. Its makes things sooo much easier.
    Semper Fidelis, Semper Liber.
    I spit at lots of people through my computer screen. Not only does it "teach them a lesson" but it keeps the screen clean and shiny.
    Stolen fair and square from the Capt. Courtesey himself.

  3. #83
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    Re: Is porperty Self justifying?

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateMk1 View Post
    Smile, wait for the flash. Shick shick boom. I like a speedy complaint department. Its makes things sooo much easier.
    All I'm saying is the land is mine. The deed says so, the courts back it, as does the sheriff. Some hippie ****s with my land, guess what I'm authorized to do? I wouldn't, unless such force was necessary, but it's not wise to **** with a mans land. If a man doesn't have land, then he doesn't have anything at all.
    I love the NSA. It's like having a secret fan-base you will never see, but they're there, watching everything you write and it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that I may be some person's only form of unconstitutional entertainment one night.

  4. #84
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    Re: Is porperty Self justifying?

    I think we agree. I dont like hippies on my property either. Or any other uninvited guests. Questions? I don need to ask no stinkin questions. Shick shick.........Boom. Tango serviced. Next.
    Semper Fidelis, Semper Liber.
    I spit at lots of people through my computer screen. Not only does it "teach them a lesson" but it keeps the screen clean and shiny.
    Stolen fair and square from the Capt. Courtesey himself.

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    Re: Is porperty Self justifying?

    My ex wife's family owned a bunch of land in Cuba then Castro took over. Now they own none. Land changes hands by trade or force. I don't know how to answer this because reality is reality.
    "I reject your reality and substitute my own."

  6. #86
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    Re: Is porperty Self justifying?

    It's justified by me owning the deed. If anyone disagrees, they can file a complaint with my 30-06.
    Legality is not that same as justification.

    Otherwise anything the government does is justified.

    Including taking your property.

  7. #87
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    Re: Is porperty Self justifying?

    Again we cannot all eat the same apple. One person will get to eat at least the part they took a bite of. Meaning that someone else did not get to eat that bite. Which would mean that some people will be excluded from eating the apple.
    Again, totally irrelevant, you don't need property rights to eat an apple ...

    Stop enforcing private property is the same as banning it. What you are proposing is not an honest way to run a country. I mean you obviously have the goal of abolishing property rights so you enploy a method that achieves that end but refuse to call it banning private property. Geesh we are not that naive we can see goal and what would be the effect.
    Not at all, you can have stuff if you want, you just can't rely on an outside force to defend it for you, and if there is a conflict yo uhave to work it out.

    Well because there are many situations where we cant all be involved in any given activity since it would be logistically impossible.
    Things that are logistically impossible are not rights ...

    I dont think that you are communicating well your thoughts here. I simply stated that in order to own property it must be in your possession. You do not need to be present to be in possession of property to still have your right to own it. For example if we were fishing and we both caught a fish each and nature called and when you came back I was eating both fish, I would not be justified by any means in eating YOUR fish. You caught the fish so the fish was your possession and your property and everyone else was excluded from owning your fish.
    When I'm saying possession I'm saying things that are in your inmediate possession ... i.e. you are present there, and they are clearly in use by you.

    Thats what I mean.

    As far as the fish example basic human respect would be enough to stop your buddy from eating your fish, you don't need property rights for that.

    Why must my possessions by up for grabs by my neighbors? All they would need to do is to vote that they want everything in my possession and now it would be me being excluded from my possessions. Why should have to justify my needs for my possessions? Are you proposing that we should all ask the permission of our neighbors on every single possession that we thought we owned? Such a system would turn to chaos so fats that the system wouldnt even have existed for a day.
    You need their consent yeah ... you don't need to ask their permission every single time, but if a conflict happens you have to work it out democratically ...

    Also it didn't turn to chaos, they have had systems like tha before that worked fine.

    The other option than working it out democratically is working it out tyrannically.

    I dont think that you quite understand what you are saying. On one hand your telling me that its ok to have possessions and since other people have possessions I MIGHT be in luck and they will let me keep my possessions. That is unless my peers are assholes, then Im **** out of luck.
    You don't need property rights for direct possessions ....

    What also has not convinced me is that you are accusing everyone that owns land as being a tyrant. Why do you think that people want to own their homes? Its called privacy.
    You don't need to legally own a home for it to be yours and have privacy.

    I don't have a legal deed to my toothbrush, yet I am rational to expect it to be mine.

    See we Americans consider our homes (whether we own them or not) as an extension of our person.
    Dont' say WE Americans, say "I", I am an American btw, and my person is complete as it is thank you very much.

    As a home owner myself I know that I am not a tyrant keeping people excluded form my possessions and my trees or my garden. I do not own all of the gardens or houses in the area. I just own one small house on a small lot just like my neighbors do. In fact the only people that are in my town are people who live here or are visiting other people that live here. No one is actually being excluded in reality. In fact if you wanted to live in this town there are houses for sell. There is plenty of opportunity to own your own home here.
    Sure, I don't have a problem iwth that, obviously if all property righst were taken away in that neighborhood, it would still work out fine with people in their homes.

    The tyrant part comes in when property rights affect other people who have no control over it, which is obviously not the case with a simple home

    Your idea of voting for possessions is called a dictatorship by the majority. Like I said it would be extremely easy to tack advantage of people such a society.
    No, its not voting over possessions, its deciding over conflicts democratically.

    If I wanted your fish in your world all I would need is a friend or two. Theses no difference in your dreamed of society than a bunch of thugs taking possessions by force. If I lived in a apartment building on the ground floor all I would need to do to move to higher floor (if thats what I desired) was to convince other people to vote me into where I wanted to be. And whoever was in that spot is **** out of luck.
    If you wanted my fish in anyworld all you'd need is a friend or too ... property rights (law) doesn't really work with fish in this world either.

    BTW, all the doomsday arguments your making now are the same ones that pro-monarchy people made against political democracy ... It didn't happen.

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    Re: Is porperty Self justifying?

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    Legality is not that same as justification.

    Otherwise anything the government does is justified.

    Including taking your property.
    Legality has everything to do with it. I bought it, therefore it is mine. No other justification is required.
    I love the NSA. It's like having a secret fan-base you will never see, but they're there, watching everything you write and it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that I may be some person's only form of unconstitutional entertainment one night.

  9. #89
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    Re: Is porperty Self justifying?

    Then don't complain about taxes ...

  10. #90
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    Re: Is porperty Self justifying?

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    Then don't complain about taxes ...
    What the **** does that have to do with anything? Are you drunk, or stoned?
    I love the NSA. It's like having a secret fan-base you will never see, but they're there, watching everything you write and it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that I may be some person's only form of unconstitutional entertainment one night.

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