View Poll Results: Is property self justifying

12. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, property is an innate right, your exclusive rights to your property is self justifying

    9 75.00%
  • No, if you want exlusive rights to something it must be justfiable.

    3 25.00%
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Thread: Is porperty Self justifying?

  1. #91
    RGacky3's Avatar
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    08-25-15 @ 03:22 AM

    Re: Is porperty Self justifying?

    Well, if you think legality justifies something, then it also justifies taxes ... and anything else the state does.

  2. #92
    FreedomFromAll's Avatar
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    Re: Is porperty Self justifying?

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    Again, totally irrelevant, you don't need property rights to eat an apple ...
    Yes it is relevant. If I go to court and have no property rights I have no case.

    Not at all, you can have stuff if you want, you just can't rely on an outside force to defend it for you, and if there is a conflict yo uhave to work it out.
    Of course if I have no property rights then I have no recourse but to use violence to protect my natural rights. The world is not perfect in fact there are a lot of assholes out there that do not care about property rights or about any individual. With no property rights I have no judicial recourse. What would happen in your happy utopia is that street gangs would take over communities along with other more powerful organized crime.

    Things that are logistically impossible are not rights ...
    So then the hell with peoples rights since its a logistic nightmare? Again you are leaving the door wide open for corruption to take over.

    When I'm saying possession I'm saying things that are in your inmediate possession ... i.e. you are present there, and they are clearly in use by you.

    Thats what I mean.

    As far as the fish example basic human respect would be enough to stop your buddy from eating your fish, you don't need property rights for that.
    So when I am at work or the store its open season. Not everyone is honorable and will just ignore my possessions, take a look around reality is a tough place.

    Again if my so called buddy steals my fish what am I supposed to do if I have no property rights? You seem to be acknowledging that property rights extend further than just real estate. Its our property rights that bar the government and corporations from just doing whatever they want.

    You need their consent yeah ... you don't need to ask their permission every single time, but if a conflict happens you have to work it out democratically ...

    Also it didn't turn to chaos, they have had systems like tha before that worked fine.

    The other option than working it out democratically is working it out tyrannically.
    Have you not ever heard of a jury trial? That would be the democratic part of our judicial system. But even judges answer to the people and are constrained by the Constitution and case law.

    What systems are you referring to that worked out fine?

    You don't need property rights for direct possessions ....
    Property rights enable each citizen the liberty to have possessions without the fear of someone deciding to take them away.

    You don't need to legally own a home for it to be yours and have privacy.
    What stops ruthless people from tacking a home (owned or not) if we have no right to our homes?

    I don't have a legal deed to my toothbrush, yet I am rational to expect it to be mine.
    Try leaving a store without a receipt. A toothbrush costs less than 10 bucks it would be ridiculous to have to get a deed for a toothbrush.

    Dont' say WE Americans, say "I", I am an American btw, and my person is complete as it is thank you very much.
    Thats debatable.

    Sure, I don't have a problem iwth that, obviously if all property righst were taken away in that neighborhood, it would still work out fine with people in their homes.

    The tyrant part comes in when property rights affect other people who have no control over it, which is obviously not the case with a simple home
    No it would not work out alright. Any asshole could just take away my house and I would have no rights to defend since you just took them away.

    If a simple home is not what you are talking about then why take the owners rights away?

    No, its not voting over possessions, its deciding over conflicts democratically.
    I set the situation that I have possessions that i want to keep regardless of what anyone else says. Either way you put it., it turns out to be other people wanting to take possession of my property. Since I am one individual I will always loose your little democratic setup. In effect it will be the majority dictating to me and telling me what I can and cannot do.

    If you wanted my fish in anyworld all you'd need is a friend or too ... property rights (law) doesn't really work with fish in this world either.
    Right now in this country if I came and took your fish you could press charges of theft against me. And more charges if I used force. And the reason that you could is because the Constitution enforces our property rights.

    BTW, all the doomsday arguments your making now are the same ones that pro-monarchy people made against political democracy ... It didn't happen.
    Well now wasnt that an fallacious thing to say. I am not making the same arguments that pro-monarchy idiots made. That would be you making an strawman argument trying to tie me to monarchy.

    It is interesting that you should try this tactic so soon. So far I have only been standing up for my rights as a citizen. You on the other hand want to take my rights away and turn this country into a place where no one has any rights. Because as I said property rights are the mainstay of a free society. No property rights no liberty and no freedom. I did not work years to have no right to that which I posses just so people like you can feel like they live in a just society. Lol you talk about justifying private property while asserting that you want to take my rights away. I dont know how you were raised but for most Americans taking rights away is taboo and will incite a fight.

    Tell me something do you own a house or a vehicle?

  3. #93
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    Surtr's Avatar
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    06-10-14 @ 01:54 AM

    Re: Is porperty Self justifying?

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    Well, if you think legality justifies something, then it also justifies taxes ... and anything else the state does.
    Taxes are an entirely separate issue. If you have no argument, then simply withdraw.
    I love the NSA. It's like having a secret fan-base you will never see, but they're there, watching everything you write and it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that I may be some person's only form of unconstitutional entertainment one night.

  4. #94
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    Re: Is porperty Self justifying?

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    There is so much federally-owned land in the US, I seriously doubt we have to worry about all the land being privately owned at any time in the next few hundred years.
    So very true, and even moreso if you add land owned by state, country and local government it is even much more.

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