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Can you be a slave owner and a libertarian at the same time?

Can you be a slave owner and a libertarian at the same time?

  • Yes

    Votes: 12 42.9%

  • No

    Votes: 16 57.1%
  • Total voters
    28
johnny_rebson said:
Do you realize that the Bible mentions masters and servants/slaves?
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I'm not really sure that particular book is the one you should be using as your guide to the world. Unless you advocate killing children as a reasonable courses of action.
 
I voted yes. Libertarianism is already a whacko extremist philosophy. A libertarian who owns slaves really isn't that much of a stretch.

And the founding fathers weren't libertarians. Not by a long shot, but the ones who owned slaves were still hypocritical.
 
Is anyone remotely surprised that Hatuey was the one to start this thread? :lol:
 
Excon said:
That is hilarious.

If a person was of the belief that another was not human, there is no racism.
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wow, that is the dumbest thing I have ever read. anyone that thinks a person is non-human based on skin pigmentation is a textbook racist.
 
Excon said:
...
That depends.
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depends on what?

depends on whether or not you believe that the slaves you own are human beings?

one can be a Libertarian AND a slave-owner, if they believe their slaves are not human?

slave-owners didn't think their slaves were not human.....only a lesser & inferior form of human...because they were black Africans.
 
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ARealConservative said:
wow, that is the dumbest thing I have ever read. anyone that thinks a person is non-human based on skin pigmentation is a textbook racist.
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yes believing that someone is sub-human..or not even a human being, simply due to their race & origin...is the essense of racism.
 
ARealConservative said:
wow, that is the dumbest thing I have ever read. anyone that thinks a person is non-human based on skin pigmentation is a textbook racist.
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Then you do not understand what you are reading.
 
Excon said:
Things like voluntary servitude.

Indentured servant, Prisoner, etc...
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slavery......is not voluntary servitude or indentured servitude or prison labor.

now, do you believe that African slavery was not a racist institution, because some slave-owners didn't consider black Africans to even be human?
 
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Hatuey said:
So there are Libertarians who are for personal freedoms... just not for certain people?
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Part of what made the attitudes surrounding slavery so sinister is that your sentence does not parse.

We are discussing founding fathers that could be identified as holding libertarian-like ideals... aka "classic liberal" ideas... and yet also had slaves. But you could not say they supported personal freedoms for only certain people, they favored them for all people... of course, the notion that the slaves working in plantations in Virginia were actually people would have been met with much derision and / or scepticism at that time.



Restrictive personhood, responsible for / involved in every major human rights abuse since ever. "Those folks don't count, so we may do x, y, z to them."



We should do what we can to remedy inconsistencies between our nation's status quo and our nation's mission statement, the Declaration of Independence. Certainly, it's a paradox that even that document's author owned slaves, and it required remedy. Unfortunately, that remedy came through war and coercive force. Hopefully we can end other human rights abuses without such things, but the practice of restrictive personhood continues in other regards and it also requires remedy.
 
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Thunder said:
slavery......is not voluntary servitude or indentured servitude or prison labor.
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:doh Wrong.

Thunder said:
now, do you believe that African slavery was not a racist institution, because some slave-owners didn't consider black Africans to even be human?
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That is a question that you need to ask the Africans that sold there own kind into bondage in the first place. Under that guise, I would have to say it wasn't.

But it is a question you can also ask of modern day African's who engage in the practice.
 
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Excon said:
:doh Wrong....
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voluntary servitude is not slavery, as it is voluntary.

indentured servitude is not slavery, as it is part of a signed contract signed by the servant.

prison labor is not slavery, as their labor is part of their punishment for committing crimes.

now, as to the European slave-trade, they made slaves out of black Africans because they believed they were inferior human beings, which is of course a racist idea.
 
ARealConservative said:
wow, that is the dumbest thing I have ever read. anyone that thinks a person is non-human based on skin pigmentation is a textbook racist.
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A correction, just because your sentence doesn't parse.

What you meant to say, no doubt, is that "anyone who thinks that a human is not a person based on skin pigmentation is a textbook racist." And that is agreeable, yes.

However, you can go beyond that...

Anyone who thinks that any human is not a person based on anything is some kind of bigot, and this belief belies that they either do not believe in equality - do not consider all men to be created equal - or they are a hypocrite for whatever reason.
 
JayDubya said:
A correction, just because your sentence doesn't parse.

What you meant to say, no doubt, is that "anyone who thinks that a human is not a person based on skin pigmentation is a textbook racist." And that is agreeable, yes....
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indeed, believing that someone is not a human being simply due to their color & origin, is the height of racism.
 
Thunder said:
indeed, believing that someone is not a human being simply due to their color & origin, is the height of racism.
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Yes. And anyone who thinks that any human is not (or should not be) a person based on anything is some kind of bigot.
 
Thunder said:
voluntary servitude is not slavery, as it is voluntary.

indentured servitude is not slavery, as it is part of a signed contract signed by the servant.
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A slave is a slave regardless of how they got there.


Thunder said:
prison labor is not slavery, as their labor is part of their punishment for committing crimes.
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This is debatable.
Separation from society is the punishment.
Labor is not part of the deal.


Thunder said:
now, as to the European slave-trade, they made slaves out of black Africans because they believed they were inferior human beings, which is of course a racist idea.
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No.

Slaves were purchased because they were cheap labor.
Not because they were thought of as inferior.
Thinking they were inferior was just part of the package.
The same held true with the Irish slaves and the Chinese Slaves. Cheap labor.

But that may be why they were sold to begin with by their own kind.
But not why they were bought.
 
Excon said:
A slave is a slave regardless of how they got there...
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wrong.

...Slaves were purchased because they were cheap labor.
Not because they were thought of as inferior....
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wrong again, as we are talking about black African slaves.

and didn't you earlier argue that the African slave-trade wasn't racist as the Europeans didn't even consider them to be human?
 
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Thunder said:
indeed, believing that someone is not a human being simply due to their color & origin, is the height of racism.
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No it is not.

Racism does not come into play at that time.

If they did not believe they were human, race can not factor in.
Race can only be a factor when they are considered human.
 
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Thunder said:
wrong.
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Yes you are!



Thunder said:
wrong again, as we are talking about black African slaves.
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Wrong again, and not a surprise at all.

They were purchased because they were a cheap source of labor. Period.
Just as the Irish and Chinese were.

And your denial of it says all we need to know.
 
Thunder said:
they were not considered human, BECAUSE of their race.
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lol
:doh
If they were not considered human, Race can play no role.
Because they would not be considered a race of humans. Duh!
Race is dependent on there being human.
 
That wouldn't make much sense to me, but I know it happened. I'm not going to say my political ideology came from perfection or is perfect because like every other political view...there are flaws. No one view is absolute and I wish people could come to that consensus in our country.

Libertarianism is not the end all be all, but I find it to hold most of my beliefs which is why I am a Libertarian. I am also a free thinker and an individual. I hold that closer then any political affiliation.

Slave ownership goes against the very idea of Libertarianism. I know early Libertarians were that and it contradicted the views, but what political view has no holes in it?
 
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