View Poll Results: Can you be a slave owner and a libertarian at the same time?

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  • Yes

    13 43.33%
  • No

    17 56.67%
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Thread: Can you be a slave owner and a libertarian at the same time?

  1. #171
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    Re: Can you be a slave owner and a libertarian at the same time?

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    the context of our discussion. he is claiming that our history did not include the enslavement of chinese people. He asked what proof I had that it did exist, I said history books...
    "history books", is not evidence.

    quotes & links.....is evidence.

  2. #172
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    Re: Can you be a slave owner and a libertarian at the same time?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    "history books", is not evidence.

    quotes & links.....is evidence.
    back to ignore with you

  3. #173
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    Re: Can you be a slave owner and a libertarian at the same time?

    Simply thus, Some of the Founding Fathers would agree with many of the points on what we now call libertarianism. Of those some did own slaves. It was the times slavery would not be avoidable back then. Today, we use machines instead. The main point about the issue of racism I will quote from the article referred in the OP.

    from Ron Paul :

    But to me, itís a moot point. I thought the great people in the 1950s and the 1960s were people like Branch Rickey and Jackie Robinson. I mean, thatís how real integration occurred. Where did the real segregation come from? From government. Government-endorsed slavery. Government-endorsed segregation law. Government-endorsedÖ how long did the government have segregation of the armed forces? Up until the World War Two. So to say that we who defend private property are labeled ďracistsĒ, I think thatís, and you didnít. You didnít.
    Observe that the issue is that government was the one supporting racism. Libertarians do not support the enforcement of distinguishments of persons by government.
    An Enlightened Master is ideal only if your goal is to become a Benighted Slave. -- Robert Anton Wilson

  4. #174
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    Re: Can you be a slave owner and a libertarian at the same time?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    they were persons....just lesser-persons...because of their race & origin.
    No. Persons can not be property.

    Slaves were not people.

  5. #175
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    Re: Can you be a slave owner and a libertarian at the same time?

    Quote Originally Posted by JayDubya View Post
    No. Persons can not be property.

    Slaves were not people.
    sure they were. They were people owned by someone else, but they were still people.

    However, black Africans were considered inferior people, hence they were the only slaves in the USA post-Revolution.

  6. #176
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    Re: Can you be a slave owner and a libertarian at the same time?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    sure they were. They were people owned by someone else, but they were still people.

    However, black Africans were considered inferior people, hence they were the only slaves in the USA post-Revolution.
    What you have just said is nonsense.

    A person has a right to liberty recognized and protected by a government. A slave has no liberty and is simply someone else's property, like a dog or a cow.

  7. #177
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    Re: Can you be a slave owner and a libertarian at the same time?

    Quote Originally Posted by JayDubya View Post
    What you have just said is nonsense.

    A person has a right to liberty recognized and protected by a government. A slave has no liberty and is simply someone else's property, like a dog or a cow.
    slaves are persons, which is why slavery & Libertarianism are mutually-exclusive.

  8. #178
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    Re: Can you be a slave owner and a libertarian at the same time?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    slaves are persons, which is why slavery & Libertarianism are mutually-exclusive.
    Slaves had as much personhood as a horse. Or a chair.

  9. #179
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    Re: Can you be a slave owner and a libertarian at the same time?

    I just read the OP again and realized this. Dr. Paul says the founders had a "Non-interventionist foreign policy"?

    Either he hasn't hit the history books or he's being incredibly disingenuous. Except for a period of isolationism during the inter-war period, we've had an activist foreign policy since before we even gained our independence. I mean I guess all that "non-interventionist foreign policy" was why we didn't intervene in those pesky Barbary Wars and the creation of the US Navy...oh wait...
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  10. #180
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    Re: Can you be a slave owner and a libertarian at the same time?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    "history books", is not evidence.

    quotes & links.....is evidence.
    Dude...I HATE agreeing with ARC but he just gave you the ****ing JSTOR link. Read it.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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