View Poll Results: Can you be a slave owner and a libertarian at the same time?

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  • Yes

    13 43.33%
  • No

    17 56.67%
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Thread: Can you be a slave owner and a libertarian at the same time?

  1. #141
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    Re: Can you be a slave owner and a libertarian at the same time?

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    you were definitely wrong about Chinese slaves.
    how/why am I wrong?

    were Chinese people grabbed from China against their will, sold in the USA as slaves?

    no they were not.

  2. #142
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    Re: Can you be a slave owner and a libertarian at the same time?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    how/why am I wrong?

    were Chinese people grabbed from China against their will, sold in the USA as slaves?

    no they were not.
    yes, many were. books have been written about it

    here is one such book http://www.jstor.org/stable/25118876

  3. #143
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    Re: Can you be a slave owner and a libertarian at the same time?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    are you going to say why it is "backwards"?
    I told you I was done with you on this subject.

    What do you not understand about that?

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    Re: Can you be a slave owner and a libertarian at the same time?

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    I told you I was done with you on this subject.

    What do you not understand about that?
    you said my claim was backwards. You said I don't know what I am talking about.

    but you refuse to state why. If you don't want me asking for evidence for your claims against me, you should avoid making them.

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    Re: Can you be a slave owner and a libertarian at the same time?

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    yes, many were. books have been written about it...
    what evidence do you have that the Chinese were actually sold as "slaves", and not indentured servants, in the USA?

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    Re: Can you be a slave owner and a libertarian at the same time?

    From 1641 to 1652, over 500,000 Irish were killed by the English and another 300,000 were sold as slaves. Ireland’s population fell from about 1,500,000 to 600,000 in one single decade. Families were ripped apart as the British did not allow Irish dads to take their wives and children with them across the Atlantic. This led to a helpless population of homeless women and children. Britain’s solution was to auction them off as well.

    During the 1650s, over 100,000 Irish children between the ages of 10 and 14 were taken from their parents and sold as slaves in the West Indies, Virginia and New England. In this decade, 52,000 Irish (mostly women and children) were sold to Barbados and Virginia. Another 30,000 Irish men and women were also transported and sold to the highest bidder. In 1656, Cromwell ordered that 2000 Irish children be taken to Jamaica and sold as slaves to English settlers.

    ...

    England continued to ship tens of thousands of Irish slaves for more than a century. Records state that, after the 1798 Irish Rebellion, thousands of Irish slaves were sold to both America and Australia.

    The Irish Slave Trade – The Forgotten “White” Slaves – Rasta Livewire

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    Re: Can you be a slave owner and a libertarian at the same time?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    you said my claim was backwards. You said I don't know what I am talking about.

    but you refuse to state why. If you don't want me asking for evidence for your claims against me, you should avoid making them.
    It was already given.
    So you get no more from me. Understand that. You will be told you are wrong and that is it.

  8. #148
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    Re: Can you be a slave owner and a libertarian at the same time?

    anyway, most folks here agree that one cannot be a Libertarian and also support the right to own slaves. The two are as mutually-exclusive as water and fire.

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    Re: Can you be a slave owner and a libertarian at the same time?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    what evidence do you have that the Chinese were actually sold as "slaves", and not indentured servants, in the USA?
    history books, which is the same evidence I have for all the things that occurred before I was born.

  10. #150
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    Re: Can you be a slave owner and a libertarian at the same time?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Whenever I hear a Ron Paul supporter praising the American demigods or more commonly know as the Founding Fathers - they sometimes refer to them as "Libertarians". Now, before you go calling this a "straw man" here is the big enchilada himself saying the founders were "Libertarian":

    Ron Paul: The Founding Fathers Were Libertarians


    Now, obviously I acknowledge that not ALL the Founders were slave owners. I also acknowledge that there is a possibility that maybe Paul wasn't referring to ALL the founders. However one big name that sticks out in my mind when referring to the "founders" is Jefferson and I doubt such an important figure in US history wasn't who Paul was referring to when he said "the founders". "Libertarians" like Paul LOVE to call out Jefferson when discussing personal freedoms. He's a Libertarian All-Star. I decided to look around and what do you know there were Libertarians comparing Paul to Jefferson and crediting Jefferson for modern Libertarianism. Not only that but they were doing it on officially sanctioned Ron Paul websites:

    Ron Paul is Thomas Jefferson*|*Ron Paul 2012 Presidential Campaign CommitteeRon Paul 2012 Presidential Campaign Committee



    Now I'm no history scholar. However, Wikipedia? That's a great tool right there. You can look up quick definitions for words you don't really understand and get a rough idea of what they mean:

    Here is the basic definition of slavery:

    Slavery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



    Here is the basic definition of Libertarian:

    Libertarianism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



    Now, the underlined sections are the ones which have led me to believe that slavery and Libertarianism are not compatible. One is based on the freedom of association, the other is forced. This made me wonder, are Libertarians completely mental when considering Jefferson a "Libertarian" or are they right and it is possible to be both a slave owner AND a Libertarian? Either way, the second question was the safest one to ask so I'll repeat it:

    Can you be a slave owner and a libertarian at the same time?

    I’m not sure you can make that association considering the times, back in their day slave owership wasn’t anything unusual . Most wealthy people had them, it was a way of life. Some if not most of the founding fathers may have disagreed with slavery, but during that time it was a way of life.

    In My opinion, it would be like looking back 200 years from now, and asking the question, was Al Gore really concerned with saving the planet ( or any person you care to name) when his foot print was nearly 6 times that of the common population? Was Bush or Obama really concerned with the country’s growing debt when in 12 years they increased that debt from 4 trillion dollars to over 15 trillion dollars ??

    I think it’s easy to look back 200 years after the fact and question anything, In reality you are asking someone to tell you what our founding fathers thought in their head, and in there heart compared to their actions at the time they lived ……. I for one don’t believe that can be done.

    So my answer would be that yes 200 years ago .. you could have been both .. and no, in todays world .. you couldn't
    Last edited by The Barbarian; 06-26-12 at 12:35 PM.

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